Region-Locked Car Project!

[fndrbndr]

I've started thinking about this lately, and I've decided to add something else to my already-too-full Forza plate.  There are 30 cars in the game that are region-specific.  I've decided to try each of them out and see what happens.  I already have the North America cars, and the others are easy to get; the AH is always open, after all.  This first post just has a list for reference.  I'll be avoiding the muscle cars, since I think we've all explored those pretty thoroughly, having four different specs for racing them in the different classes and all.  That leaves:

Europe
Level 5-   1961 Jaguar E-type S1
Level 10- 1974 Lancia Stratos HF Stradale
Level 15- 1982 Porsche 911 Turbo 3.3
Level 20- 1989 Lotus Carlton
Level 25- 1987 Porsche 959 
Level 30- 1998 Ferrari F355 Challenge
Level 35- 2005 Porsche #3 Lechner Racing School Team 1 911 GT3 Cup
Level 40- 2005 BMW Motorsport #2 BMW Motorsport M3-GTR
Level 45- McLaren #41 Team McLaren F1 GTRL
Level 50- Audi #1 Infineon Audi R8

Asia
Level 5-  1969 Nissan Fairlady Z 432R
Level 10- 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR
Level 15- 1998 Subaru Impreza 22B STi
Level 20- 2002 Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec II Nur
Level 25- 2002 Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type-A
Level 30- 2005 Honda NSX-R GT
Level 35- 2003 Subaru #77 CUSCO SUBARU ADVAN IMPREZA
Level 40- 2006 Toyota #25 ECLIPSE ADVAN SUPRA
Level 45- 1998 Nissan #32 NISSAN R390 GTI
Level 50- 1999 Toyota #3 Toyota Motorsports GT-ONE TS020

North America
Level 5-  1968 Shelby Mustang GT-500KR (likely to be ignored)
Level 10- 1969 Dodge Charger R/T-SE (likely to be ignored)
Level 15- 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle SS-454 (likely to be ignored)
Level 20- 2000 Ford Mustang Cobra R
Level 25- 1996 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport
Level 30- 1999 Dodge Viper GTS ACR
Level 35- 2005 Chevrolet #31 Whelen Enigneering Corvette Z06
Level 40- 2005 Panoz #51 JML Team Panoz Esperante GTLM
Level 45- 2002 Saleen #11 Graham Nash Motorsport S7R
Level 50- 2002 Cadillac #6 Team Cadillac NorthStar LMP-02'

For the non-R cars, the process will be pretty detailed.
1.  Drive the cars stock.  I'll drive a car on a few different tracks stock, getting a feeling for what it does well and poorly.  After that, I'll focus on what it does well.  I'll pick a few tracks (possibly using the power vs. twisty vs. flowing approach, possibly not) and go from there.  This is also where I'll make my best guess as to where the car will fit.
2.  Upgrades!  I'll try a few different upgrade paths, but the basics will be set in stone pretty early.  If I decide to go grip, for example, I'll be sticking with slicks, just changing to something stickier and thinner or slippery-er () and wider.  This will mean more driving.  I'll also be making adjustments to my original choice of class after learning what the upgrades "cost" in PI.
3.  Tune!  I'll probably start with a blooze toon on the front-engine, RWD cars.  On AWD cars, I'll probably work from principals I've picked up from Ske's universal FF tune and Audi TT (though I had to change several things to make it work for me).
4.  Rinse and repeat.  Obviously, I'll be struggling with some of these, trying to figure out when I'm "done."  I'll try to limit myself to a couple of iterations of the process, though.
Well, there we go.  Any suggestions on the methodology?  Any ideas for the first car to take out to try?  I'd really like to do something un-American for my first foray.  I've already got the Lancia and Jag from when I started working on the Tiny Terror spec.

[BarbecuePete]

Im working on a 22B in A-class at the moment but I need to work on it more as its a bit slow on top speed and a bit tail happy, but being AWD this just means huge 4 wheel power slides, lots of fun but not very fast... lol

I know they can be extreemly quick but as with when I originally built it up in S-class for the HLC at Maple Valley im struggling to get a decent tune on it so I'd be intrested to see what you come up with when you get round to it...

Also I have a Carlton built up in A-class as seen in my paint shop,  its not really a front runner but I like to give it a run out from time to time, It can be quick but I've had to completely re-build the engine since I changed to running No-Assists as it was almost un controlable in its original setup because of its huge torque... I ended up with only the Race Cam on it so that the torque didn't just come in one huge lump which just spun the car without TCS...

A few other guys here run some of these cars too, if remember right, Snyder has a rocket ship of an E-type, I think thats in A-class too and Hop's B-class Stratos is a bit quicker than mine overall...

[fndrbndr]

Tried just going to neutral rear toe on the 22b?  Or perhaps adjusting the diff to put a little more torque toward the front?

I'm interested in the Stratos; it seems like it would run well with the vettes, so I may make a B-class pseudo-M-Inc build out of one and see what happens.  The lack of rear aero scares me, though.  My understanding is that the car is quite tail-happy.

I've got a few of the jags.  I've kicked one of them back and forth between B and A, but never really found a home for it.  I'm thinking this ground-up approach may help me there.

I already love the GTS-ACR in S-class (a relic from the supercars spec, which I really wish we'd run again). 

The Porsche 959 is, well, an old(er than Bimmer) Porsche, and that's always cool. 

The Carlton is a Lotus.  Enough said.  Same for the RX-7.  Not that it's a Lotus, but it's RWD, live axle (IIRC), and for some reason, I've always liked it.  Can't tell ya why.

I guess what I'm saying is, most of the cars seem cool.  The scoreboard factor of the 22b isn't really a deterrent, but I'm more interested in making cool cars fast than just making fast cars at this point.  I'm also admittedly still learning to use AWD to its full potential.

[BarbecuePete]

I''ve been tempted to build up another Carlton, I'd like to have a good one in A-class I can use the one I have suffers a bit as I wanted to create a BTCC replica so its only got the rear spoiler for downforce meaning its understeery in high-speed corners... and with Slicks and a full WR its limited on engine parts, as I said before its only got the Race cam on it to curb the huge torque from its twin turbocharged 3.6L Straight six..to make it drivable with no TCS...

I'll be working on the 22B I'll probably start with moving more power to the front, I think its on 75 /25 at the mo...

EDIT:- Found these stats about the RL Carlton, I wonder just how close the standard in game car comes to these figures?? Especially that 195mph top speed 

Specifications[1]

Top speed - 175+ mph (281+ km/h),real 195 mph (313 km/h)
Peak power - 377 hp (281 kW) @ 5200 rpm
Acceleration - 0-60 mph: 4.9 sec., 0-100 mph: 11.5 sec./0-100 km/h: 5,2 sec., 0-160 km/h: 11,5 sec.
Peak torque - 419 ft·lbf / 568 N·m @ 4200
Engine displacement - 3615 cc
Engine type - Twin turbocharged straight six-cylinder
Configuration - Front-engined, rear-wheel drive
Transmission - Six-speed ZF manual
Weight - 3666 lbs (1663 kg)
Production - 950 units
Price - £48,000

[Spiny Anteater]

Just added a quick set of impressions from when i ran these in Career. As most of these tunes are a year or more old, you might want to take the comments with a pinch of salt...

Europe
Level 5-   1961 Jaguar E-type S1 Haven't run yet
Level 10- 1974 Lancia Stratos HF Stradale A fun car, but as you've said you have to tame that oversteer. Mine is in D Class, and you really need it higher than that so you can add grip.
Level 15- 1982 Porsche 911 Turbo 3.3 Taken to the top of it's original class (I think that's B), but all I can remember is that mine handles poorly, accelerates poorly and was a bit of a disaster
Level 20- 1989 Lotus Carlton
Level 25- 1987 Porsche 959  Despite the old tune and 4WD, this is a surprisingly quick and fun-to-drive car. I really had to push in the Spirra to beat it's time on Sebring Club
Level 30- 1998 Ferrari F355 Challenge Another car which is very quick despite the old tune. highly recommended
Level 35- 2005 Porsche #3 Lechner Racing School Team 1 911 GT3 Cup
Level 40- 2005 BMW Motorsport #2 BMW Motorsport M3-GTR
Level 45- McLaren #41 Team McLaren F1 GTRL
Level 50- Audi #1 Infineon Audi R8

Asia
Level 5-  1969 Nissan Fairlady Z 432R Very good provided you don't need a good top speed
Level 10- 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR Lot's of potential, but mine has lot's of power, high weight and low grip. Not the best upgrade path
Level 15- 1998 Subaru Impreza 22B STi I went full WR while staying in B Class. Car is very lively and with a more up-to-date tune could easily justify it's tag as a leaderboard car
Level 20- 2002 Nissan Skyline GT-R V-Spec II Nur Quite heavy, but also pretty fast
Level 25- 2002 Mazda RX-7 Spirit R Type-A Much better than you'd expect, but the tail can wag a bit
Level 30- 2005 Honda NSX-R GT Not bad, but a long way from being the best NSX. Then again, it does have a snorkel
Level 35- 2003 Subaru #77 CUSCO SUBARU ADVAN IMPREZA Good top speed, not leaderboard material (except the Speedway) but a decent mid-pack runner
Level 40- 2006 Toyota #25 ECLIPSE ADVAN SUPRA Very good - only beaten by the Vipers and Ferrari
Level 45- 1998 Nissan #32 NISSAN R390 GTI Terrible turbo lag off the line, but get away cleanly and it handles well. If you race the AI, the car behind on the grid usually piles into the back of this one and kills the engine
Level 50- 1999 Toyota #3 Toyota Motorsports GT-ONE TS020 Feels good, but isn't anything special

North America
Level 5-  1968 Shelby Mustang GT-500KR (likely to be ignored)
Level 10- 1969 Dodge Charger R/T-SE (likely to be ignored)
Level 15- 1970 Chevrolet Chevelle SS-454 (likely to be ignored)
Level 20- 2000 Ford Mustang Cobra R You have a good one, I have a good one, need I say more
Level 25- 1996 Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport Add as much power as you dare on DOT's - it will be fast and relatively controllable in A Class
Level 30- 1999 Dodge Viper GTS ACR
Level 35- 2005 Chevrolet #31 Whelen Enigneering Corvette Z06 Not as good as I expected it to be
Level 40- 2005 Panoz #51 JML Team Panoz Esperante GTLM I wanted it to be good, it wasn't
Level 45- 2002 Saleen #11 Graham Nash Motorsport S7R They aren't leaderboard cars for nothing
Level 50- 2002 Cadillac #6 Team Cadillac NorthStar LMP-02' Get's placed just high enough up the grid to get past the AI before they destroy you - that' is a massive advantage offline

[fndrbndr]

Thanks, Spiny.  I picked up a few of these today.  I've driven the 959 stock.  I ran the first AWD shootout race on the snakes and the Mugello short race from the Porsche club event.  Impressions:

1.  In stock trim, it's a bit iffy on the switchback sections.  The rhythm section at the beginning of Mugello went better than the snake section, but they were both a little rough.  It doesn't respond to throttle the way an RR does, though I guess I should have expected that.  It got better as I drove, but it's likes to break loose.

2.  It does break loose with a nice, even 4wheel drift, which is kind of nice.  I'll try to make this car break loose a little less easily while keeping the nice, docile nature that it has when it breaks loose.

3.  The car doesn't like the combination of brakes and anything but going in a straight line.  I want to make it handle a little more predictably under braking.

This was just a couple of courses.  I'll be continuing to mull things over (and drive a few more courses) before I decide what to do with this car.

[fndrbndr]

I think that this car would be a lot more fun to drive IRL than it would be effective to drive on the track, at least judging from the game.

[TopBoost]

I'm stoked to see where you head with this, Fender.  Now I have to get me some of these cars and try to keep up with you.   

[sk15kev]

The E-Type is a b1tch!  I haven't tried it for a while, but it was a killer trying to get the power down on the skinny tyres.

[fndrbndr]

I'm having fun with it.  I'm seriously considering the 959 as an attempt at an S-class mongoose.  I'm going to try it on Tsukuba and Dback this evening and see what that does for me.  I'm not really thinking of it as a potential power-track car because of the AWD. I'll try to post up some times.

[fndrbndr]

Then again, just thinking out loud here, but it might do OK on flowing tracks IF changing up the spring rates can reduce the weight transfer.  I'm thinking Maple Valley might be a good possibility.  After the test drive, I'm going to get a feel for a few PI costs.  If tires are cheap, then I know where I'm headed.  Right now, though, the lack of acceleration off the line (at least compared to other RWD cars) is a little troubling.  I guess taking accel-happy P-cars and giving them accel-happy AWD drivetrains isn't an automatic win after all; so much for the perfect storm theory.

[Spiny Anteater]

It's a while since I drove the 959, and even then it was only in A Class, but I do seem to recall that 1st was set very short, so short that I used 2nd for the Sebring hairpin in fact. I guess I had the same trouble getting off the line as you.

And yes, it does have oversteery tendancies, but as you said the 4Wd does make those drifts nice and controllable. I suppose we're looking at the same ideas as the drift crowd when they use the 4WD Skylines (right, I'm off to shoot myself now after that thought!)

[fndrbndr]

It's a while since I drove the 959, and even then it was only in A Class, but I do seem to recall that 1st was set very short, so short that I used 2nd for the Sebring hairpin in fact. I guess I had the same trouble getting off the line as you.

And yes, it does have oversteery tendancies, but as you said the 4Wd does make those drifts nice and controllable. I suppose we're looking at the same ideas as the drift crowd when they use the 4WD Skylines (right, I'm off to shoot myself now after that thought!)

The thing is, I'm wondering whether it's fast or just predictable.  I'll race ghosts this evening to figure it out.  I don't recall how many ponies it's pushing, but if it fits max-width slicks and full WR in S class, that's probably where it's headed, unless I find something really, really neat when I take my "grand tour" in the thing this evening.

[fndrbndr]

Tsukuba short gave a 44.725 in stock form, and a 58.921 at the full ribbon.  Not awe-inspiring, but it's on stock rubber.  It doesn't claw its way out of corners like some AWD cars do.

Silverstone National was 60.652.  Again, not great, but decent for stock rubber.  I'm intrigued, and ready to think about upgrade paths.  It seems to handle some flowing sections better than others at this point.  A trip to MVS should sort things out.  On the trailer we go...

MVS should show whether this car can handle flowing track duty.  40.580 isn't exactly something to write home about.  Again, though, stock rubber.  The main worry was its ability to hold the sweeper, and it did fairly well there.  It sets in a turn OK.  This would, however, likely be the worst car ever built if one were looking for an autocrosser.

What does this tell me?  It doesn't put the power down as well as a lot of AWD cars.  This is my first RA, so I'm sort of working blind here, but I'm going to take a stab at A850 before I go straight to S-class.  I have a lot of cars in A, so I should be able to get some sort of idea what's going on just by doing a QR.  The build will be 100 PI worth of grip, mostly tire, I think.

[TopBoost]

Picked up a 959, Fender.  Now I'm going to follow your lead.