ALS/500 Challenge: Ultimate Pony Car--Closed

[DirtDriver]

Leaderboard:

Driver	Car	Laguna Seca
Snyder005	Camaro SS	86.919
Ske	Boss Mustang	87.041
Trawled Alien	Boss Mustang	87.457
larryCR	Boss Mustang	87.463
Spiny Anteater	Boss Mustang	87.489
BarbecuePete	Boss Mustang	87.535
Ske	Camaro SS	87.811
Drift2XL	Camaro Z28	88.000
Spiny Anteater	Camaro SS	88.152
Bimmerlovere39	Camaro Z28	88.180
Drift2XL	Boss Mustang	88.264
BarbecuePete	Camaro SS	88.387
Drift2XL	Shelby GT500KR	88.400
BarbecuePete	Camaro Z28	88.401
fndrbndr	Boss Mustang	88.409
Bimmerlovere39	Camaro SS	88.446
Bimmerlovere39	Boss Mustang	88.446
DirtDriver	Boss Mustang	89.076
DirtDriver	Camaro SS	89.077
BarbecuePete	Shelby GT500KR	89.100
DirtDriver	Camaro Z28	89.500
fndrbndr	Camaro SS	89.551
JuanOfMany	Boss Mustang	90.821

Skunk's Big Mouth: Part I

OldSchool Speedshop staff meeting while everyone is waiting on Dirt to show up...

Trix: Did you boys catch that episode of American Muscle Car about the Trans Am races? What I wouldn't give to bring back those days!

Bert: Hell, it wasn't all you make it out to be, Miss Trixie. It was all factory money. Biggest check writer wins. That simple. No real racin' involved.

Skunk: You tellin' me those camaros couldn't have dominated over the mustangs without under the table help? Those camaros were the cream of the crop. It was Ford that got embarrassed and it was Ford that started pouring the money on. Camaros ruled!

Bert: One thing I will tell you right now, young man. You woulda got your ass kicked if you ever said something "ruled" back in those days. As it was, Ford was just playing catch up. And once they did there wasn't a bowtie pony that could hang. You can take that to the bank. Ford did!

Skunk: C'mon Bert, that 69 camaro was the pinnacle of muscle cars and it was the purest pony car, period. The Mustangs were playing catch up from day one. Even the 'Cuda beat them out of the gate as the first pony car.

Bert: You got a lot to learn, boy. The Mustang was the ONLY pony car. Camaros were just wannabes.

Skunk: I'm just saying that the 69 camaro would have wiped the track if it was a level playing field. That's the way it was then. That's the way it is now. You give it a fair contest and the camaro would still "rule"!

Trix: Hey, Ron? You own a Camaro don't you?

Betsy: Come to think of it, honey, you own that fancy mustang out there in the shop.

Trix: You thinking what I am thinking, Betsy?

Skunk: Now hold on! If you're thinking about a race I gotta tell you my wife isn't gonna let me race the Z/28 anymore. Sorry. No can do.

Bert: Besides, my mustang ain't got no 302 and that is the engine what raced against them Z/28s. I am crated up with quite a few more cubic inches.

Trix: Well, that's no problem at all. I was gonna save this little surprise for Dirt but I might as well run it out now. I picked up a sweet little Camaro SS for the shop with some extra cash we got from renting space out to those cell phone folks. So, I'm thinking we build that one and Bert's mustang out to ALS 500 specs and just see what all the Trans Am fuss was about.

Bert: I don't know Trixie. Dirt might not go for it.

Trix: Haven't you noticed? Dirt ain't here...


Well, there you have it folks. The ultimate pony car challenge courtesy of Skunk's big mouth.

The Cars: Boss Mustang vs. Camaro SS

The Track: Laguna Seca

The Specs: ALS 500 means A Class,  Maximum 500 hp with Minimum 3000 lbs curb weight.

Gentlemen? Start your engines!

[BarbecuePete]

Oh yeah..... Can't wait to try this one... 

Just one question... is there a Pi / Class limit or is it just the weight and power restrictions we have to work within?

I also think that once we have these cars up and running it would be doing them a dis-service if we didn't give them a good 10 / 15 / 25 lap race to round this out...  4000bhp of America's finest muscle tearing up Laguna Seca, Can't think of anything i'd rather see than that... 

[DirtDriver]

Yeah, Pete, I overlooked that...the restrictions are A class, 500 hp limit, 3000 lb. curb weight minimum. I tried to make the ALS challenges only use restrictions that can be set in an online room.

500 hp and 3000 lbs is as close as I can get to what the original Trans Am Racers spec'd at.

I am still boxless, at the moment but hope to get up and running before this challenge is over. I have been wanting to do mustang v. camaro for months!!!

DD

[DirtDriver]

As an interesting aside:

I was shocked to hear drivers from the Trans Am era describe the handling and driving technique for these cars. They said you HAD to slide them around the corners. I suspect that was intentionally induced throttle oversteer as much as anything else, but I am just guessing.

And here I have spent all my time trying to create a mild mannered handling car in FM2!

DD

[Fit4aking]

A pony car challenge and I'm off galavanting around in Asia. 

Perhaps Spanky'll get the email and round up a ringer driver........

Meanwhile back on American soil, Spanky's computer makes the jingle that he has a new message

*Sscchhhhwwwwiiiinngggg*  (you have mail)

Spanky: Dman you Fit, we coulda made a few bucks on this one.  Hey Ms Lynette, we still have that resume' ??

To be continued.....

[Spiny Anteater]

I'll have a go at building that Boss 'Stang out to spec - it's been sitting there in the garage wrapped up in the US flag trying, and failing, to perform well with a 400bhp limit. I think it will go better in ALS500 spec.

Trouble is...

I picked up the keys to the new house yesterday. So I'm facing a month of cleaning, decorating, packing and moving which is going to see me on much less and I'll also disappear at some stage. But, I'll try to use the few free evenings (such as this evening) to set a time.

[DirtDriver]

congrats to you, spiny!!! sounds like a very cool thing...keys to the new house!

DD

[fndrbndr]

I'm moving somewhere at the end ofthe month, as well.  Frankly, I'm starting to think that it's going to be Tallahassee.  I'll build out both cars, though; I've never really found a home for the SS, and the Boss is my D-classer, so I'll probably try the SS first, even though I'll probably end up with the 'Stang just because I like them.

[Spiny Anteater]

congrats to you, spiny!!! sounds like a very cool thing...keys to the new house!

DD

Thanks Dirt, although keys to the DD-aged house is more accurate

Still, got the chance to break out the old Boss tonight (pics below for those who missed her first time around) - didn't get much tuning time but got 8 laps in, shame the best was lap 4 and then I just got worse and worse




I thought I was going to be going in well under the 500bhp limit on this, then remembered the 3000lb weight limit. Once I had added the weight back on for that I found myself going over the 500bhp to hit 850 PI. I finally managed to get 500bhp and 849PI, only to find I must have been slightly over 500bhp as the car wasn't eligible for the <500bhp event. So, off came the race intake, on went the race fuel system (I think! might have been ignition) and the car was back at PI849 with 500bhp. But, this time, it was just under 500bhp (499.8 to be exact) as the car could enter the <500hp Semi Pro series.

The massive torque of the Boss presented another problem. By using race cams I could keep it down to 514lb-ft, but I still ended up with 1st gear allowing me to do 80mph. As a result I ran this with a 3-speed setup, but it will still spin up the rears over the crest on the S/F straight.

And the time, 87.489s

I think quite a few of you will have the beating of that. But at least with the Spirra I can claim to have a best lap in a V8!

[fndrbndr]

Wait, Bimmer and I were thinking racing slicks were also required.  Is that not the case?  Granted, they'll probably be necessary within the other limits, just asking for clarification.

[DirtDriver]

no, fndr. Remember the logic of ALS is to only set restrictions that can be set in the game so....just class, weight, and hp...run whatever tires you want.

DD

[fndrbndr]

Thanks for the clarification.  I think I was confusing this with the LMMS. 

[BarbecuePete]

I built up both the Camaro and the Stang to as high as possible within the limits of the ALS Specs and went out for a few laps testing, I found the Mustang to be the faster car during my testing so I went for a free run to set a time and then ran the A-class American Regional race at Laguna Seca...

Also to keep in the spirit of reviving the Trans-Am I turned off the assists, No TCS, No ABS (and no Stability but I never use that anyway) This is the first time I've ran without ABS and I was suprised how well I did, I thought i'd be locking up and sliding off all over the place! lol

The Stang has been rebuilt from B-class M-inc specs so by adding in the extra power I now find that the gearing is very short as I left the tune as it was from its B-class setup which I really liked... I didn't really notice the gearing at Laguna though as I could just reach 6th on the S/F straight, but when I ran at Maple Valley for the regionals I was way up in 6th in the fast bits so I would have to lengthen the gearing for use on other tracks, but at Laguna the gearing feels pretty much spot on.. Slight lengthening of first may help traction off the line but theres not much wheelspin except in first and second, except over the crest on the S/F straight and heading up to the corkscrew but that can be cured with a quick shift to 6th...

I also used a part I haven't used before on any car, the Centrifugal Supercharger, It really helped reduce the torque drop off in the higher revs and I managed to get this car to exactly 500bhp and it still qualifies for the 500bhp Semi pro races, checking the telematery though I found it to be producing 502.8bhp @ 5125rpm 
(Full Toon will be posted soon)

Fastest lap - 87.755

[larryCR]

I managed an 87.463 with the Mustang last night. I'll post the build details when I've had a chance to fire up the box and write things down. A summary is normally aspirated, just shy of 500 HP, and 30xx pounds. I'm adjusted the stock tune settings with pressures to 28, final drive lowered to make it a 4 speed on this track, 0.7 negative camber, +0.1/-0.1 toe, full aero, and the diff set at 30/25.

[fndrbndr]

I tried the SS, and haven't broken 90 seconds yet.  I used a supercharger as well (don't remember which one), but only hit about 830 PI or so.  One thing I'm noticing is that by the time you get to the upper classes, you're racing some insane race cars.  The P/W ratio for the NASA American Iron spec is only 1/9.  This works out to about 1/6 (500hp/3000lbs).  I don't feel so bad about being kind of all over the place when I remind myself of that.