ALS/500 Challenge: Corvette Rally CLOSED

[DirtDriver]

This is the Official Thread for the ALS/500 Corvette Rally.

This is a one week event on one track. The specs are (again)

Road Atlanta
Corvette C2, C3, and C4 (Sting Ray, ZR1, Grand Sport)
A Class
400-500 hp
3000 lb minimum weight.

The podiums:

Top Team Performance (Anyone running all three cars for a cumulative time)

Teams are pretty much how ever you want to accomplish it. Hire a few drivers, use fantasy characters, etc. and come up with a name for your team...that simple.

Top Car Performance (Top time for any one mark, best Sting Ray, ZR1, or Grand Sport)

Top car is an individual pursuit wether the driver is representing a team or running as a privateer.

How to use this thread:

Of course, the leaderboards will be in the first post. Other than that you can use this thread for comment, snippets of dialogue for your characters, and build notes if you want to post them. And you can post pics. We'll see if Fit wants to run a paint poll afterwards. Just one thing, the specs are set so feel free to evaluate and complain if you want but they won't change.

The first leaderboard will be up on Monday. I was going to hold off until then to start the thing but knowing how work goes for me and others I thought it best to open it up today. So, This challenge is now open.

DD

Grand Sport

Driver	Rd Atlanta	Team
Spiny Anteater	82.055	Team Europe
Krista	82.931	House of D2XL
Racer X	82.958	Exodus Racing
Synder005	83.031	AMR
Trash	83.146	Smokey's Garage
Blooze	83.223	OldSchool Speedshop
Fit4aking	83.844	Spanky's Speedshop
JEi Bimmer	84.702	JEi Track Cars

Sting Ray

Driver	Rd Atlanta	Team
Hekalite	83.169	Exodus Racing
Synder005	83.280	AMR
Red	83.479	Smokey's Garage
Chigger	83.838	House of D2XL
JEi Gavin	84.118	JEi Track Cars
OSS Skunk	84.377	OldSchool Speedshop
fndbndr	84.395	Spanky's Speedshop
Moosejaw	84.522	Team Europe

ZR-1

Driver	Rd Atlanta	Team
Serial	81.352	Exodus Racing
Pzr Ske	82.683	Team Europe
Synder005	82.790	AMR
Detrick	82.825	Smokey's Garage
Drift	82.872	House of D2XL
fndrbndr	83.183	Spanky's Speedshop
OSS Trixie	83.759	OldSchool Speedshop
JEi Will	84.080	JEi Track Cars

Team	Grand Sport	Sting Ray	ZR-1	Z06	Bonus	Total
Exodus Racing	82.958	83.169	81.352	NA		247.479
AMR	83.031	83.280	82.790	NA		249.101
House of D2XL	82.931	83.838	82.872	82.117	0.383	249.258
Team Europe	82.055	84.522	82.683	NA		249.260
Smokey's Garage	83.146	83.479	82.825	NA		249.450
OldSchool Speedshop	83.223	84.377	83.759	NA		251.359
Spanky's Speedshop	83.844	84.395	83.183	NA		251.422
JEi Track Cars	84.702	84.118	84.080	NA		252.900
Landstuhltaylor	NA	NA	NA	81.265	1.235	NA

[DirtDriver]

And now for something different...the announcers for your event:

Mike: Welcome to the Forza Channel's coverage of the inaugural American Legends Series Corvette Rally at Road Atlanta. While all eyes in the stock car world are turned to Daytona this week vintage muscle car purists from around the nation and across the world have gathered here to celebrate the Corvette and to launch the newest class for ALS, the 500hp cars. I'm Mike and with me is Larry, your hosts for this classic muscle car event.

Larry: Sports car or Muscle car? That argument has become as familiar to Corvette lovers as are the lines of that first C1 which gave birth to the legend. This week we will see Corvettes in all configurations, big block, small block, naturally aspirated and those with superchargers. One thing is certain, Road Atlanta will require the best of both worlds, muscle car and sports car for these drivers to post a top time. The teams are making their way to the garage area and to help us cover the action on the track we are joined by our pit reporter, Kristen.

Kristen: Thanks, Mike and Larry. It's just the first day in the event and the big news down here is in the team rosters. We are seeing uncommon and unlikely alliances between smaller shops to put together a winning roster. Shops have literally posted help wanted posters at the entrance to their garages looking for top drivers. ALS is not supposed to be a competition but you couldn't tell it by all the wheeling and dealing down here. Mike?

Mike: Kristen, are there any surprises in the team make ups?

Kristen: Yes, there certainly are. Team Exodus has only two members at the moment. Everyone is surprised that only two of their drivers have made it to the event. Another shocker is the alliance between BBB Racing and the OldSchool Speedshop. Anyone who has followed these events know that there is no deeper rivalry between drivers than Dirtdriver and Blooze. This week Blooze is running for the OSS team. Unbelievable.

Larry: Kristen, we also here there are some unexpected developments among privateers?

Kristen: That's right, Larry. One of the best performing Muscle, Inc. drivers, LarryCR, has chosen not to attend this event or at least not to drive. You can be sure he will be in the stands, somewhere, keeping an eye on the progess of other drivers.

Mike: Looks like an exciting start to the first ALS/500 event. And we dont' even have any times posted. Stay tuned to the Forza Channel for complete coverage of this challenge.

[DirtDriver]

Mike: Welcome back, everybody. We are now starting to see the cars get out of tech inspection and start taking the track. It looks like OSS is running a rookie in the C2. Larry, I have to wonder if that is the best choice given how technical those cars are.

Larry: I agree, Mike. OSS seems to have  brought two Sting Rays to the track and the new guy is running near identical times. Looks like the cars are faster than the driver in this case. Kristen has caught up with one of the OSS drivers down in the pit area. Kristen?

Kristen: We are here with one of the most exciting drivers in the series, Trixie from OSS. Trixie, you have a new driver in the Sting Ray and it looks like he is trying out two different cars.

Trixie: Yeah, Ron is a new guy in the shop and Dirt thinks he's got potential. The deal with the two cars is that one of them is supercharged and has a race valve and cam setup. Ron will be running just one car but right now he is testing that car against the n/a build in my car, Caroline.

Kristen: I thought that might be Caroline. But I see you are running in a ZR1. You posted the fastest lap time for the team. What can you tell me about your run?

Trixie: Right now we a fighting a push in every corner. Makes it a real handful coming through the downhill S turns and also in the chicane. Ran just under 85. If we can get rid of that push she'll be faster.

Kristen: What kind of times do you expect to see?

Trixie: From us? Maybe a second faster. But some of these guys out here will be hitting low 80s in no time.

Kristen: One last thing, DirtDriver doesn't appear on the race line up. Any word on why he isnt' driving?

Trixie: All I can say is no comment.

Larry: That was Kristen, our pit lane reporter. One new development in the garage area to report. Drivers from the UK have joined together to form their own team. Spiny Anteater and Moosejaw have reached an agreement to represent their country in this event. I have to wonder where they might find a third driver.

Mike: My guess would be Great Britain, Larry...just kidding. We'll be back with more coverage in HD from the Forza Channel.

Times:

ZR1: 84.856 (Trixie)
Sting Ray: 85.123 (Skunk)
GS: 83.961 (Blooze)

[Bad One]

If I get a new box in time (I killed another one... I'm on my 5th or 6th 360 now...) in time, I'll run as a privateer.  Been awhile since I've driven... to much Rockband and Paradise for me...

[Snyder005]

Hope you don't mind me hijacking your announcers for a bit.

Mike:  Here's an interesting team, We have a virtual unknown racer Snyder005, who has recently appeared on the Road Atlanta top times, leading two other drivers under the flag American Missile Racing. 

Larry:  I have my doubts on whether this team can contend against some of the larger and more recognized teams such as OSS, but let's ask the team leader himself.  What are you thinking coming into this event?

Snyder:  Well I'm just aiming to get AMR on the map, and win some publicity with this event. 

Mike:  Now who are your drivers for this event, and what cars are they driving?

Snyder:  I'm driving the 1969 ZR-1.  My partner in crime, Dillon, is driving that sick-nasty Sting Ray over their, and Damon is driving the Grand Sport. 

Larry:  I noticed you have another Sting Ray parked over their, may I ask why?

Snyder:  That's my personal 'Vette.  Names Ashleigh.  Runs 987 horsepower, and is holding down the #7 top time. 

Mike:  That's a friggin demon on wheels!  Well good luck in this event.

----

Here's my times.

ZR-1:  83.985
Stingray: 84.513
GS: 84.327

Total: 252.825

[DirtDriver]

Too bad, you could have been interviewed by Kristen...she's hot. LOL

Nice times, nice crew.

DD

[Serial]

Being that I was coming from SC, as soon as I heard about this challenge, I grabbed the wagons and headed West to Atlanta.  Built up all 3 cars to test for myself before the other Exodus drivers arrived.  I ran a quick 5 lap jaunt in each car.  Here are my Day 1 track notes:

'67 Sting Ray
A832 500 HP 3,024 lbs
-Should be faster in the straights, but it's no slouch
-Keep a light foot in the corners
-Should see the most benefit from tuning
-We're gonna more sets of tires

'70 ZR-1
-Feels like it's made for the track
-Brakes a little mushy, but it could be due to straightaway speed
-Will probably benefit the least from tuning

'96 GS
-Feels like a modern ZR-1
-Handles great in the twisties
-Lacks any guts on the back straight

As I said, I ran 5 laps in each car, in a stock tune.  I ran an 83 in the Sting Ray, and 82's in the ZR-1 and GS.  I think with some good tuning, the Sting Ray should be able to hang with the other two Vettes. I'm thinking we see top times in the 81's, possibly a couple of 80's.

And the irony in the test session ?  In all 3 cars, I was chasing down my old ghost...it's a C6 Z06 !

Oh yeah...and Snyder....you got bumped to #8 a couple of days ago...

[bimmerlovere39]

What I'm really curious to see is how the different builds of the GS will fare.  Any predictions?

[Blooze]

Willis came out emerged from the garage door's addit like opening, blinking into the evening Sun and wiping his hands on the ever present red rag from his hip pocket.  He had that grin on his face that signaled he was gonna give me some grief.

"What's a matter son, didn't you run it?"

The car was dirty as hell.  "Yeah, I ran it!  Why do you ask?"

"Well it isn't all scuffed up and wrinkled... I figured you musta left it on the trailer."

I flipped him off as I waddled off toward the back of the trailer.  A day in the seat plays hell with my back and makes me walk funny... gettin' old.  "Why don't you quit with the being  such a smart ass and help me with these ramps."

I'd had a pretty good day.  Almost caught my Christmas Eclipse's ghost, ran an 83.9xx on what I considered substandard tires and without TCS.  I was sort of proud of myself.

But we had some stuff to sort out.  Actually, the fact that I got a decent lap in at all was a miracle in itself cause I was thinkin' more about things we could do to the car to make it so I could get a bit more agressive with it.

Eph and the kid finally got off their respective asses and came out and helped and we got every thing back in the shop and buttoned down for the night.  Willis asked the kid if he'd made the beer run he was told to make and the kid said "of course" so we all headed for the break room.  I noticed that our R&D area was a mess, with parts from what looked to be a pretty new GS Vette scattered all over hell's half acre.

"What in the hell is that you got piled up in the R&D bay?", I asked nobody in general as I took the beer the kid handed me and made for my chair.

"Oh, that.  Dirt sent us over a parts car in case we needed it."  Willis gasped, having damn kilt the first beer in a single swallow.

"Smart ass..." I mumbled.

"No" he interrupted, "I think he's actually trying to be helpful."

"By sending us a basket case?"

"Oh, that."  Willis had that goofy grin again, and Eph and Buck looked like they may have had a part in it.  "Uh, we done that.  The car was in one piece when it got here, ran pretty good too.  In fact we may want to try putting some weight back on ours and get you some better tires."

"That would be nice."  I didn't have any trouble, but then I didn't try to put myself in any situation where I would have to rely on the tires to keep me out of trouble either.

"So, anyhow's, we took it apart to see how all he and that Bert dude had it put together... you know, fore warned and all that stuff."  Willis looked conspiratorial - like an industrial spy.

"Well, what did ya find out?" 

***

We'll leave it there. 

This particular challenge looks like it will be a good time to get into building engines a little bit more, least wise, for us down here to BBB Racing.

Here's a couple engines that can be fit under identical, to the gnat's ass, Grand Sports.

Hp	Tq	Hp/Tq	TqRPM	HpRPM	RedLine	Limit
426	439	1.031	4500	5800	6300	7000
428	386	0.902	5100	7200	8000	8500?

As you can see, these are substantially different engines.  One of the things I noticed in my travails yesterday is that my GSX ghost was pulling away from the GS in 5th gear.  The GSX only has 388 Hp and a 0.899 Hp/Tq.  However, it does have a Torque/Weight ratio of 0.140 - higher than either version of the GS.  The other thing that the GSX has is a worked up transmission.  Both of the GS versions were running stock gears with just an FD change.

So on today's to-do list.

• Dyno all three cars
• Find where in the curve each car is making its best power
• Modify both GS transmissions to take advantage of its Hp/Tq profile

To be answered

• Can the High RPM version leverage that into a top speed advantage.
• Can the High Torque version be driven efficiently with something other than an automatic - strange shift points.
• Can I immulate the GSX just by using same gearing, or is there something else - the GSX has a turbo.
• Which profile best fits Road Atlanta?

Busy day here at BBB Racing...

$

[Fit4aking]

I'm gonna put my full effort into the GS.  Thanks to fndrbndr, I won't have to hurry through all 3 builds.  I love it when a guest mechanic/driver decides to help out.  I did have a hard time finding a delivery service to get the tow cars out to him. (I couldn't gift or recieve cars all weekend)

I still have an entire notebook full of scribbles from the GS vs Esperante challenge.  We were all in the 87-91 range with 360 hp and limited platform upgrades.  I see no reason why the times shouldn't be much faster now.

As soon as I can get the hauler up and loaded I'll book some track time.  We crested the mileage for an oil change coming back from the Proving Grounds this weekend so its down for service.

[DirtDriver]

Mike: Well, day two of the ALS Corvette Rally is here and the drivers are hard at work mastering the this new specification. And it hasn't been all cookies and milk.

Larry: That's right, Mike. Putting 3000 lbs on a car like the Corvette with its short wheel-base presents some handling issues. A lot of the drivers say they have been helped along by the recent Muscle, Inc. D class challenge which ran near stock muscle cars on twisty tracks. But they weren't going this fast. The Corvette with the most issues seems to be the Sting Ray.

Mike: Joining us in the both is a motorsports legend in his own right, Skip. You used to race these Sting Rays. What can you tell us about the difficulties the drivers face in this new configuration?

Skip: First, I dont' know about legend but thank you for the kind words. The real handling challenge for the C2 is it's higher center of gravity. You really have to use throttle and brake to keep the car balanced and you can see that right here as this driver is going through the S curves. There is a full half second in those turns if you keep the car in good shape. But then you come down to this left hander at the bottom of the hill and...well..look...the back end just takes off on him and that turn is the second most important turn of the track.

Larry: We can see from the tape that the car can be handful. That was the new driver for OSS. We hear you have been working with him to build his skills.

Skip: Yes, that's Ron and that is my old C2. Good driver and I can assure you he is the one doing all the work.

Mike: Here is another tape of one of the EXOR drivers.

Skip: Serial. You watch this guy on the track and it doesn't seem he is going all that fast. Very technical driver. Here he is in the same section. He's not fighting the Sting Ray at all and see...right through the left-hander with no bobble.

Larry: Thanks, Skip. We'll be keeping an eye on your new driver and old car. Really is legendary stuff. I think Kristen has an update in the pit. Kristen.

Kristen: Well, you guys just got a look at Serial. You aren't the only one's watching. Rumors are there might be a little side competition between Serial and Synder on the leaderboards. And it looks like the GB team may be going international. Ske and the team are in talks right now about his availability as a driver. Ske has a record of being very fast in any car. Looks like Serial is going to be drawing a lot of attention...maybe not the kind he wants. Back to you in the booth.

Mike: So, just one day into the event and rivalries are already starting to surface. Our coverage of the ALS Corvette Rally at Road Atlanta continues...

[Snyder005]

Time to start working at this, I got held up by the B-Class enduro, so my RWD skills are lacking.

Damn, Greeksniper has to come and blow everyone else out of the water, but at least I'm holding off headyman.  With the missile, right now i can run about 80's, it might take a bit of time to dip into the 79's.

AMR has only had a chance to run 3 laps each with the cars, before I had to go to the garage, which is located right at Road Atlanta, and drive to Maple Valley.  Our paint guy didn't have the RX-7 painted and race-prepped, so the Civic was grabbed instead.  Now that my teams back at HQ, we can get to tuning the cars and dropping those lap times.

[fndrbndr]

(It was another lazy Sunday at Doc's place when Fndr came flying down the dirt road, top down and music blasting.  He'd watched the Dukes of Hazzard again last night, and was having a little too much fun with his Chrysler.  He resisted the urge to try to power slide through Doc's freshly-mowed lawn.  The last few months had not been bad to the Tiny Terror.  Locally, road racing is big enough that they could get into an event or two, and always did pretty well, having a car that would pass tech for some of the lower classes, where its excessive grip came in handy.  As long as they stayed away from Sebring, the Tiny Terror 2000gt and its cousins, the Opel Speedster and Miata, more than held their own.  The muscle bug had also bitten Fndr pretty hard, and they'd even done a couple of upgrades for professors on campus who wanted a to turn the muscle cars from their youth into things that would handle on the street.  They also hired themselves out to do a few custom jobs for college kids whose parents had more dollars than sense, but those were mostly imports, hot hatches and the like.  It had pretty much turned into a real, albeit part-time, shop.  Anyway, Fndr had just gotten off the phone and had to share some good news.)

Doc:  Well, you're in a hurry.  You know we'll reheat that Sunday pot roast for ya.

Fndr:  Yeah, guess so, but that's not why I'm here.

Doc:  You left that iPod of yours in the car.  It must be something big.  You always take that thing out.

Fndr:  Well, I'll need it.  We got some work ahead of us.

Doc:  Another college kid wants us to install a turbo on his Hyundai?

Fndr:  No, real work.  Racing work.

Doc:  What did you find now?

Fndr:  Well, you remember the folks who talked to us after the D-class muscle race?

Doc:  Sure.

Fndr:  You remember the guy from Spanky's Speedshop?  Fit?

Doc:  Yeah. You matched up pretty well that time around.  I wish we had tape of that Road America race you keep talking about.

Fndr:  Well, they're running some sort of team race, and they need a third.  I've been invited to run with them for a race at Road Atlanta.

Doc:  Awesome.  If they're running the full track, we'll be hurting for top speed.  I mean, 150 mph isn't bad, but that's not really the kind of track where you can take a 250hp ricer to dominate.

Fndr:  Well, that's the other good news.  There's gonna be a little more horsepower in this one.

Doc:  Well, we can get a few more performance parts for the engine, but with our skidpad numbers, we won't stay in B class.

Fndr:  Well, it's A-class, and Fit's offered to provide the ride, but I'd like to work on one anyway.  Wouldn't feel right putting our shop name on it if all I'm doing is driving.

Doc:  Fair enough.  So what's this new ride of yours gonna be?

Fndr:  We're gonna be working on a ZR1.  (Doc is silent)  Don't worry, we'll find one somewhere.  I've already called Zeke.

Doc:  I'm glad you been runnin' those extra races.  If we didn't have that prize money, I don't think this could happen.

Fndr:  If I hadn't run those extra races, we wouldn't be getting this opportunity. 

Doc:  Well, Zeke asked what we had on the books, but I didn't know this was why.  This should be fun.

Fndr:  Yeah, Fit said he might try to get the hauler up and send us over a car for the series.  At the very least, I'd like to have a copy of the Spanky's logo for this one, but I'm not worried about that right now.  Let's break out the catalogs and see what we can throw together.  500hp, and the weight has to stay over 3,000 lbs.

[DirtDriver]

Looks like another snow day here in swampeast Missouri...

We settled on the forced induction C2 as it was a bit faster on the back stretch and the lower torque made her easier to drive.

The engine:

Sport Cam and Valve
Street CF supercharger
Street Fuel

That puts her spot on 500 hp. She also had enough room for street weight reduction and Volk rims. Sitting on 3016 lbs. I have to soften up the rear end, though. Still, I think mid 84s is all she has.

Hitting 145 at the gazebo on the back stretch, maybe 156 before the chicane.

DD

[fndrbndr]

Is anyone managing to get the ZR1 under about 3200 lbs and still over 3k?  Just curious...