Author Topic: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge  (Read 4254 times)

Blooze

  • Administrator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3553
  • ...It's never too early to Panic.
    • View Profile
BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« on: January 16, 2008, 05:35:47 AM »
The Car:  2005 SEAT Cupra GT Prototype.  The car cannot be upgraded in any way.  The PI must remain 975.

The Track:  Many, but eventually - the object is to have a saved tune that you can take to the time trials and kick King Cobra's ass.

This is what I am doing.  Right now I am in the process of setting a QR, an OT, and a TR with a stone stock unit.  I am not even changing the tire pressure.

Then I am going to look at tuning the thing.  This little car is unique in that it is already equipped and tuned, transmission and all.  The only thing you can do is put slicks and wheels on it.  It is the only non-R car that is like that, or at least that I know of.  The HKS Evo is close, but the brakes are sub-standard and must be upgraded to tune them.

The car has an SWR of 118.57% - a condition that has been the focal point of some discussion in the Wb thread in my garage.

So, what can you do with this car, with tuning it - Does the Tonka/Blooze tune assist you with coming up with a solution to the extreme spring rates?

I am going to have to do something with it.  It would have my top time on MVII if I could get through the little chicane leading onto the stadium straight without the thing breaking sideways.  I bet Road Atlanta is going to be a real treat...  gonna have to damn near stop to keep it pointed frontards.

So there's all sorts of stuff to keep track of... stock and tuned rankings.  A leaderboard would be burdensome in those requards.  Let's just use those values in our discussions.

But when it is all said and done, and we have a Tune, then the proof of the pudding will be your rank and time on the Time Trials King Cobra event.

We don't normally include rank as part of a leaderboard, if for no other reason, it is highly volatile to say the best.  However in this case, it is included in hopes of sharing setups and tunes and seeing all participants in the top 500.  Leave us Rock 'n' Roll, Troops!!  ;D


Driver          Car         Rank    TT King Cobra
Spiny AnteaterSpinyToon
115
219.797
Spiny Anteater47 / 54
--
219.836
Placard Rat53 / 57
186
221.967
Spiny AnteaterStock
--
222.225
larryCR52 / 68
216
222.532
Blooze49.5 / 58.0
219
222.549
M00seJaw53 / 66.15
344
224.151
PureStankonia-?-
350
224.781
gs shynerTuned
364
224.926
Fit4aKing48 / 68
398
225.271
Tonka Crash49.5 / 58.0
487
226.425
TheJohnNewton48 / 57
490
226.462
JG4Tr-?-
493
226.482
BloozeStock
--
228.574
gs shynerStock
--
229.663
Tonka Crash54.5 / 57.7
--
230.033
PzR SkeStock
--
230.443
Placard RatStock
--
230.534
fndrbndrStock
--
233.138
M00seJawStock
--
234.047
Fit4aKingStock
--
236.076

:D $
« Last Edit: January 23, 2008, 06:52:58 AM by Blooze »
GTs: Blooze46 / GICheeze

Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

bimmerlovere39

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
  • JEi Track Cars
    • View Profile
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2008, 07:48:08 AM »
Wait - so is it a mandatory Tonka Tune thang or can we tune how we will?
It is highly likely that the above post was produced with a drippy jowl.

Blooze

  • Administrator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3553
  • ...It's never too early to Panic.
    • View Profile
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2008, 08:29:03 AM »
Wait - so is it a mandatory Tonka Tune thang or can we tune how we will?
You can tune it anyway you want.  However, since a good portion of the results is to find out if our theories on the over sprung super cars are correct, your input will be of marginal value at best. 

« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 08:36:00 AM by Blooze »
GTs: Blooze46 / GICheeze

Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

bimmerlovere39

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
  • JEi Track Cars
    • View Profile
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2008, 11:01:08 AM »
Alright - I'll probably tune it on my own, but I'll look into the Tonka stuff and try to get my setup to look similar.

Honestly, I'm lost on all this Tonka toy stuff... I need to look at it.
It is highly likely that the above post was produced with a drippy jowl.

gs shyner

  • Guest
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2008, 11:10:44 AM »
curious,

1)  If I'm able, can I run the car in a Career race to at least get level up and money?
2)  If you can only had tires and rims, how are we gonna be able to TTBlooze it?
DOH, I get it, it's like a R(x) car.  DOH  (sorry, have yet to even run a "race" car. (besides that scary R1 trial)

I'll proceed like you with a straight "baseline" run on it, as you have stated, and then go thru the TonkaBlooze tune.
I'll give it a whirl with my minimal skilz and I will learn something in the process. As I'm not too sure what I learned in the Saleen TTBlooze tune. (but it did drive better)
(takes time to process and get thru this thick skull)


G

TheJohnNewton

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1203
    • View Profile
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2008, 11:37:48 AM »
Wait ...
...your input will be of marginal value at best. 

Ya know we've all been thinking it but to just come right out and say it Blooze...  :o   JK, Bimmer.  I have to get back somehow for how badly you trounced me online this weekend.   ;)

Oh and to the challenge.  I have been meaning to get back to those pesky Time Trails one of the days so maybe this is the start.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 11:39:43 AM by TheJohnNewton »
GT: Qmole
GT: TheJohnNewton - Muscle Cars Only
Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

Fit4aking

  • Global Moderator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1875
  • Spanky's Star Employee
    • View Profile
    • Benchmark Motors
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2008, 09:56:13 AM »
I sold this car in 'the purge' so I'll have to buy one.  It was underpowered and didn't handle quite as well as the Pagani in S so I didn't see the need to keep it. 

Trying to figure out the Tonka Toy will definately have me buying another one.  I spend most of my tuning time adding or subtracting small percentages to the springs and dampers trying to get them right, so having this tool will simplify things.  I hope.

Haven't played much as my pillow looks much better than my controller most nights.  I've been under the weather to say the least.  Damn sinus infections.
Go sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

TheJohnNewton

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1203
    • View Profile
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2008, 10:12:19 AM »
Quick early data point.  I ran two laps on the King with a Tonka Toy toon with a 54.5% bias and a 77% swr.  I completely obliterated my prior time trial time but that was set eons ago on a stock tune and may have been the first time I ever saw the track.  Car seems pretty well behaved.  Maybe a little skittish if I clip a curb and then try to turn right after.  My run put me at #1033 with a time of 3:49.293.  I had a minor mishap near the end of the run so it can be easily improved.  More testing to come.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 10:40:22 AM by TheJohnNewton »
GT: Qmole
GT: TheJohnNewton - Muscle Cars Only
Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

TheJohnNewton

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1203
    • View Profile
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2008, 11:36:14 AM »
I didn't realize we'd have a scoreboard for this but since we do I see you ran the car stock.  Lol, I didn't even try that (other than my initial time trial run long long ago, in a galaxy far far away.)  I guess it's a good practice to set a stock baseline but I almost always upgrade/tune before ever even driving any car. 

Would it be helpfull to add some info on the tune in the scoreboard?  E.G. Tonka Tooned 54.5/77 for mine.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 11:38:51 AM by TheJohnNewton »
GT: Qmole
GT: TheJohnNewton - Muscle Cars Only
Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

Blooze

  • Administrator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3553
  • ...It's never too early to Panic.
    • View Profile
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2008, 12:20:31 PM »
I will probably replace the word "tooned" with that info... good idea

:) $
GTs: Blooze46 / GICheeze

Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

Blooze

  • Administrator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3553
  • ...It's never too early to Panic.
    • View Profile
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2008, 12:41:50 PM »
I have completed my baseline run finally - like Fit, I been draggin' ass the last few days with seasonal cold type crap and getting little sleep at strange times thruout the day.

The baseline run was with the car exactly as it comes from the showroom floor.  My initial impression of the car is that it is a little quick in the rear end, forcing me to spend too much time waiting on the car before even slightly bringing the throttle up.  Unlike Newt, my impression of the car after it hits a rumble strip is that it goes piss-limber-squirrelly.   I think the extreme spring rate is the primary contributing factor, an issue that should be improved by a low 70's SWR.  From the positive side of the ledger is the car's turn in, and the g@120 score of 1.31.  The car tracks quite well, example:  I can pull the hill on Road Atlanta with the Line a brilliant red without a hint of squeal (I have tire noise turned up so that I can hear scrubbing when it occurs.)

Like Newt, I destroyed my previous run - this due to my having run the car on all of the other tracks before hitting the Time Trials with it.  I came up with a 228.574 and ranked at 836

NOTE - Our good friend Flying Scot is ranked #17 on this Trial with a 214.296  :o  Now, where in the hell does he find 14 seconds on that track?  I mean, I suck - but I don't suck that bad.

Anyway, to continue - I've invested quite a bit of time in this car and sort of got used to the balance of it.  Additionally, it is balanced similarly to the 330 P4.  My plan is to preserve as much of the stock balance and turn in as I can while bringing the ass end of the thing under control.

The gear set intrigued me and there are no engine parts so there is no power graph so I went ahead and made a dyno run, additionally, I made a run with the thing in Auto to varify the shift points (redline across the board).  Shifting at the Redline with the transmission tuned as it is has the "Next Gear" entering at or just past the Torque peak.  However, there is quite a bit of "headroom" between the redline (6500) and the actual rev limiter (7400).  First and Second can be run to 7200 and produce substantially more torque at that point than can be found in the "Next Gear".  3rd, 4th, and 5th can be run to 7000 rpm.  (an easy way to remember is the first two gears are just past 7000 rpm, the others are right on or just before 7000 rpm)  The problem is that running the current gear out to that rpm also changes the entry point by 400 rpm, thereby giving up some "lug" space, something that can be valuable on twisty tracks, especially in the Snakes.  The car has a terminal velocity somewhere in the 165 mph area, and since there is no adjustable aero on the thing, that is about it.  However, it takes most of a trip around Nissan to get there.

So, I will build an ersatz 5 speed that extends the run in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.  Then it will change hats and get the car to 156 or 158 as quickly as possible - 6th will be used to gather in the remaining 7 mph.  A transmission constructed in this fashion will have a problem with down shifts from 5th to 4th, and perhaps the top of 4th into 3rd.  If you build one and go racing with full damage, you can blow your engine if you are not careful.

I like this car, and if I can do it, I want to turn it into a U-Class Mongooser, as well as S Class.  This means another vehicle, and a paint job that cannot be painted.  Custom paint jobs for this car should be interesting.

Here's my numbers vs. my current top S car (the only other car with equivalent numbers in my garage at this time.)

CarQR        OT        TR       
Stealth 998 AWD
174.037
119.576
135.249
Stock Cupra
180.590
122.818
139.767
GTs: Blooze46 / GICheeze

Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

fndrbndr

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 2668
    • View Profile
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2008, 12:43:08 PM »
I'll have to win that challenge before I can participate, but that's forthcoming.  Actually, I'm halfway done already.  As a side note, is the Tonka calc in your workbench stuff, Blooze?
GT  = Fndrbndr79
Objects in rear view mirror are losing.

Spiny Anteater

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 2044
    • View Profile
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2008, 01:49:01 PM »
I'll have to win that challenge before I can participate, but that's forthcoming.  Actually, I'm halfway done already.  As a side note, is the Tonka calc in your workbench stuff, Blooze?

That makes two of us - I've only got 5 series left to complete (including 2 enduros) but unfortunately that's one of them. Am I right in thinking that run this car on the KC Time Trials though? Or was that FM1...

@ Blooze - it is very easy to lose time on this track, and lots of it. A couple of weeks ago the official .net hotlap challenge was on KC Reverse with an Asian P650 car. I managed to get about 84th or so, and yet was still about 11 seconds off the top guys. OK, probably 2 of those seconds were because I ran the Sentra rather than the massed hordes of Mugens, but even so it was a big gap. Part of that is just due to the track length (which is part of the reason why I try and think of lap times as percentages). So, that meant that I my 3:54 was about 5% slower than the fastest guys. Usually I aim to be about 2-3% slower than them, if I'm closer than that I'm happy. But, on this track the gaps are so big that I was happy, even with the larger gaps.

The moral is, there is lots of time to lose (and to gain) on this track, so nobody should be discouraged if they feel they area long way behind the best. 8)
Pleading Guilty to Cone Genocide

Go Random - Trust to Fate :)

GT: Spiny Anteater

TheJohnNewton

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1203
    • View Profile
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2008, 02:32:09 PM »
You guys can't run it becuause the car is locked for you?  If so I can gift some cars over.
GT: Qmole
GT: TheJohnNewton - Muscle Cars Only
Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

Spiny Anteater

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 2044
    • View Profile
Re: BBB Racing: Tonka Tune Challenge
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2008, 02:42:29 PM »
I can't run it...yet. But, as I said I'll soon have Career done. I think that series is next on my list anyway so all it means is that I might be a bit late to the party once more :)

Thanks for the offer though.
Pleading Guilty to Cone Genocide

Go Random - Trust to Fate :)

GT: Spiny Anteater