Quick Rank Discussion

[Blooze]

I always think I should.  If I were to list the steps I take in building a car, that would be step #1.  See what ya got before you start dabbling...

What ends up is that I run the QR to see how I did... 

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[Silvo]

The thing is if you pick a car that doesn't have much potential you can spend a lot of time trying to make it competitive. Trying lots of different builds and not getting anywhere, when it might be that the car you have picked is just not very good in the game. I've started picking a stock car at the top of each class and one in between so that I have a reasonable set of data and then plotting the PI and QR times on a graph. Then when I want to build a new car I can see if it is has any potential before spending time tuning it. Therefore wasting less game time - see attached of what I've done so far.

It basically means that you have a target time for each track based on the PI and once you've done the QR you can compare these times to confirm the vehicles strengths. It also estimates the effective PI of that vehicle based on the QR time. Finally, if the car does prove to not have much potential, your time hasn't been wasted because you still have the data to add to the accuracy of your graph.

So far it has proved interesting but I think it may be quite uesful too. For instance I played about with the Javelin to see how it measured up and I estimate that using the QR method the PI seems to be out by 53 or 6.6 seconds. Conversley the Audi TT was out by -41 PI and 4.4s.

I think it could save time tuning up duff cars and help find some little gems. Any thoughts?

[Fit4aking]

I have two opinions on that debate Silvo.

First off, anything you can do to save time when looking for a competitive cars is beneficial.  I spent hours digging through cars, building different versions, trying different drivelines, etc to build cars to sell on the tuning marketplace in FM3.  I wasted a lot of time.  Loads.  If I had baseline times I could see where the chips fell before going too far along.  However, a built car and a stock car can be vastly different.  I remember scrolling over several hot hatches in FM2 and FM3 only to find out later that they were killer cars because they offered wider tire options than any other car in their category.  Upgrades will enhance some cars to the point of fixing detractors.

Secondly, getting too technical takes passion away from your perspective.  If I know that a 69 Camaro is going to be faster than a 70 Camaro I'll go for the faster car when building for a challenge.  My level of passion for the 70 would have to outweigh the benefits of driving a faster car for me to consider buying it.  Same goes for classic European cars.  I'd have never picked up the 77 V8 Vantage because statistically it isn't attractive, its not too powerful, not too torquey, and it's heavy.  There are tons of better options for D and C class.  However, it is a blast to drive and it can hold it's own on certain tracks.  I picked it, and the DB5 because I'm passionate about them and not because of how they stack up against the rest of the cars.

Ultimately you have to play the game in a multitude of ways.  You have to be able to find fast cars to be competitive on the leaderboards, in rivals challenges, and in online racing.  You want to be able to make the cars you're passionate about fast enough to be useful when racing with friends or when your out for a stress relieving spin around the Ring.  You also need to be able to refer back to information in a way that makes both endeavors productive.  Just like setting up springs and sway bars, it's all about balance.

[TopBoost]

Ultimately you have to play the game in a multitude of ways.  You have to be able to find fast cars to be competitive on the leaderboards, in rivals challenges, and in online racing.  You want to be able to make the cars you're passionate about fast enough to be useful when racing with friends or when your out for a stress relieving spin around the Ring... it's all about balance.

To zero in in this for just a moment [momentary thread derailment]...  Valid, valid point, Fit. 

[Silvo]

I'm not suggesting we scrap the cars we love if they don't measure up. I'm just throwing it out there that this might help identify cars that are better than others fresh out the box. It might also help to realise the strengths of the cars we love before we start working on them.

While some upgrades might make average or below average cars better or perhaps a class leader, I think that some cars just seem to have a disadvantage due to flaws with the PI system and this could avoid wasting time on them. I'm not saying this is the only way to select the cars to work on but it looks like it might be useful and I'm going to see if it will help me do better and thought I'd share it to see if it was of interest to others.

[TopBoost]

Sorry Silvo.  Didn't mean to insinuate otherwise.  It was early here and I was up with the baby, typing away. 

I think I meant "don't forget to have fun along the way." 

Or at least something like that.    Hadn't had enough coffee yet.

[Blooze]

I looked that function that you are using to establish the target and I haven't the foggiest what is going on there...  How do you establish the target value?

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[Silvo]

Blooze - Basically it is calculating the formula's displayed on the graphs without having to enter them manually. I did start writing an explanation of it but it was getting quite lengthy (and possibly not very interesting!?). The thing is that there are 5 graphs with different formula's that change everytime you add a new car. It was a bind updating these so I figured that if excel can display the formula in a graph then there must be a function for it. There is but it isn't an easy one to explain. Now all I have to do once I have add a new car is extend the row number of the ranges in the formula using replace. I hope to find a better way of doing this but the function doesn't like blank cells... yet.

Top - no offence taken. I am unfortunately only too aware of the effects of an early waking baby. My boy is 3 in January and fell asleep tonight at 5pm so I'll bet I'm looking at a 5am tomorrow if I'm doing well. The thing is I think this might have some potential and I didn't want it disregarded without a chance to discuss it. I might be wrong though.

[Blooze]

Now all I have to do once I have add a new car is extend the row number of the ranges in the formula using replace. I hope to find a better way of doing this but the function doesn't like blank cells... yet.

Well maybe I can help you with this part...

If you are careful about how you "grow" your table, the functions will edit themselves.  When you want to add another car, high light the entire row that is below where you will want the new row, then right click the highlighted row and select, Insert Copied Cells from the popup.  Excel will edit all of the ranges for you. 

If you want to add a row in front of the Ka, you will have to copy the Ka row, then drop down to the car under it and select that row, then do the insert.  Then edit the first row.

If you want to add a car after the Lambo, copy the Lambo row, then do the insert, but edit the last row instead of the one you just inserted.

Doing it this way means new rows are always populated and the only thing you have to do is replace the Pi and QR data with your new values.

It seems to me that most of your decisions will be made from the results of actually driving the laps it takes to establish the QR.  You will know what you felt.  This is a way of quantifying the feel, I guess.

I will be interested to see what this looks like when it has a few more cars in it.

I hope the Excel hints are something you can use...

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[donpost]

Sorry for reviving this thread from the dead!

How have you found the QR system in Forza 4? I was thinking I have no idea which of my cars are faster than the others, and what tracks they are actually suited to so QR would be perfect.

Do you still use:

RA Short
Tsukuba Full
Sebring Short

[Blooze]

Yes, those three tracks.  I used to try to use all nine but it just got to be too much work.  I don't feel that a build is complete until I have run the QR tracks with it.

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[donpost]

Looks like I'll be firing up excel and ranking some cars tonight then