Build Note: Do the Sway Bars Really Matter in Forza?

[yelladog32]

I pose this question because of this car I'm running with right now. Got a tune setup from a friend for an Integra, and he set the sway bars to 1.00 F and 40.00 R. Everything else looks pretty normal. He said he adapted this from his Nissan Sentra that he has run in the tournament. The car I'm running is AWD, but he has run it with quality in a FWD vehicle too.

Normally, I would balk at this and try to figure out what would be best for me, but the problems don't lie in body roll for the car and there are no issues with oversteer/understeer. The car actually feels almost as good as some of the cars Blooze has built.

So I pose the question, do sway bars really matter in Forza 2?

[famousron]

I run the same arb setup ( 1 front 40 rear) in my bigger awd cars such as the G35 and Skyline 350GT. For me it helps the car rotate in the corners.

[Fit4aking]

Thats a good question.  My actual track car doesn't have a front sway bar.  Only a big 1 1/8th" rear sway bar.  It is a FWD that has the ability to swing the rear end but mostly rotates around the front. 

As far as Forza goes, I do believe that the sway bars help the cars when adjusted properly.  I find that I need to add a bit of stifness to the rear sways regularly to have it handle as I like.  Leaving them alone doesn't work for my driving style.  I really think its a matter of personal preference above anything else.

[Ske]

I've wondered the same thing... ARBs don't seem to make that much difference, with some exceptions.

One of the things I've thought about is that a big rear sway bar will increase the load on the outside rear. If that tire isn't even close to the limit (as would be the case in FWD cars and front-heavy AWDs), it just won't matter much. I imagine it would be another matter with RWDs though.

Another issue that comes to mind with Forza is that a wheel can't really lose contact with the ground due to load transfer. Consider those stiff little GTI's lifting the inside rear under heavy cornering, or the 70s rally cars lifting the inside front. If this game allowed cars to tip/roll I think ARBs would be quite a bit more significant... but it looks like there's some kind of limiter or workaround in play. Would be interesting to dig deeper into this.

[TheJohnNewton]

I noticed that setup on a tune I downloaded from the leaderboards.  I think it was on a Golf.  My guess is somebody or team high on the leaderboards did all kinds of whacky tuning experimentation not related to real world tunes and came up with it as a fast if oddball tune.  I tossed it as being too oddball for me but the car did actually drive well.  I think it also had insanely low spring settings.  I have noticed in my own, more real world tunes, that if I set the arbs too high then the car breaks loose too quickly at the limit.  It does not make for a very good driving experience.

[JG4tr]

After seeing this type of setup on a download from hotlaps a month or so ago, I noticed a lot of fast time were being set this way, particularly in the R classes. I've used this technique quite a few times since then. Although I usually shoot for something more like 10F, 30-40R. Used in conjunction with soft springs, IMO this technique seems to take some of the 'responsibility' off the front suspension and reduces the tendency to understeer as a result.

[Ske]

Just tried this 1/40 ARB setup on my Altima and slashed almost 1.5 seconds off my previous best at Silverstone III (for a 82.252 lap in A-class - better than my Elise) with no other modifications. It was a lot quicker through high speed bends, but no less stable. There's still a bit of understeer in certain parts of the track, but it's much more manageable now... a slight lift and reduced lock will put it back on track.

[JG4tr]

Yep, In the naming convention of my saved setups, I have branded this tune type with a suffix of 'QUIK' !!

[landstuhltaylor]

This kind of setup is almost always faster, but if you enter the corner too hot or hit the rumbles strips the wrong way, you will be going backwards very quickly.

[Blooze]

That sounds suspiciously like what was one of the most frustrating parts of Forza I for me...  The Sloppy Spring setup.

I think I will avoid this...

  $

[Hoplee]

It sounds to me like the physics for FWD and to a lesser extent, AWD, are screwed up. Perhaps there is some sort of voodoo going on that prevents wheels from lifting due to momentum shifts as Ske suggests.

All I know is this:

I auto-cross a FWD car and have become very familiar with it's handling at the limit. The 94 civic in this game behave nothing like my 94 civic in real life on corner exit. Because of this, I don't drive the FWD cars in this game. Their in-game behavior is flat out wrong and consequently, so are their 'wacky world' setups.

[TheJohnNewton]

I messed around with this "wacky world" setup on my C class CR-X last night.  ARB 1 in front, 40 in rear.  I posted a 40.389 on Motegi West which put me at #87 and is a few tenths better than my normal setup VTi time.  Since it's top 100 I think you guys should be able to downlaod it (I never lock my setups).  Now the question is if I go back to a more real world tune on the CR-X can I match it or is the "wacky world" really faster? 

I'm not a real life car guy so I ask you all, would you ever run a rear ARB but no front ARB?  That's pretty much what this tune is.   

[Fit4aking]

Yes, I currently do just that.  The GM Performance Parts Time Attack Cobalt also has no front sway bar and a large adjustable rear sway bar.  That set up was good enough for them to frog stomp an 800hp Skyline around Willow Springs and several other events.  Removing the front was scary but it made a world of difference as far as adding oversteer to a very pushy understeer car.

The entire Cobalt build is available for download at the GMtunersource.com website.  I had the entire thing printed and bound for myself.  It also goes very indepth as to how to correctly modify an Ecotec engine well over 1000hp.  I found it very informative but I was comparing apples to apples.

[TheJohnNewton]

Interesting Fit.  With this setup the front end does tuck in nicely so maybe it's not so wacky after all.  1000 hp in a Cobalt! 

[Blooze]

When you consider the numbers - 1 and 40, it just sounds like a bent dipstick shoved the slider all the way left for the front and all the way right for the rear.

If your consideration is to remove the front ARB, then that casts a different light on it.  I wonder if the rear bar needs to be so high to make this work.  Perhaps the 1 for the front and a more normal (by the game's standards) rear setting will work just as well, if not better.  Perhaps it won't be so flighty off the rumble strips.  I may give this a try later on (Running R2s right now... they need the ARBs ) and try to sneak up on the rear setting.

$