Forza Hotlap wipe

[iCH3AT5]

well, I just checked, every single one of my times on every single track has been wiped, it appears to be more than the top 1000 as alot of my 5000 rank times seem to be gone too. Oh, and my online rank is back to rookie. Oh and I only had 2 times under 1000, believe it or not the 2 B700 C2 vetter times I posted for the recent challange were the only sub 1000 times.

I also noticed alot of my friends had this happen as well.

[Hekalite]

Yep, if any of your scores are wiped (including TrueSkill), you are completely removed.  Don't feel too bad, all of us at Exodus are going to get hit because we run with manual transmission exclusively.

[Big Mooing Cow]

Yup, I'm wiped too.  And none too happy about it, I might add!

[iCH3AT5]

Yep, if any of your scores are wiped (including TrueSkill), you are completely removed.  Don't feel too bad, all of us at Exodus are going to get hit because we run with manual transmission exclusively.

don't tell me they are seeking out the MT users alone, or people who run no assists, I will be ticked about that one.

I don't really mind personally.

[Serial]

I believe it was anyone who ran with MT and placed better than Top 5000 on a track...or maybe on Time Trials.  Something to that effect at least...

[Drows]

There was a few things:
Runned a time with a MT before 25/08.
Posted a time with an Elan
Time under 10 second

So yeah, basicly, they did remove mostly everyone

[SH0EB0]

first of all a big howdy to everyone, my username on the forza forum was nevillebartos and i did occasionally contribute to the muscle inc challenges with some below average times but i can assure you i have followed every muscle inc thread and although i didnt always say a lot i did pay attention and i loved watching the community spirit which was built around these big lumps of steel we try to tame.

ive just had a look through my b class times and none of mine have been wiped, i assume this is the same for all of my times. and i have never used an auto box and never plan on using one, most of my times were in the top 5000 and some of them in the top 1000 so im not sure what criteria they are using to wipe the boards but i dont think its purely MT + top 5000 times

[Open2nd]

Yup, I'm wiped too.  And none too happy about it, I might add!

I feel ya buddy, I'm about the same way right now.  I think some of my times have already been wiped a second time, but I'm not too sure, because it could be that they just haven't uploaded yet.  Anyways, I was affected.

Gonna chill on the hotlapping and everything.  I'll still be found on the tracks though, no doubt about it.

[Blooze]

I have not been hit yet and I am starting to get embarassed by it.  If I don't get it, then I will suspect collusion of some sort because friends on both sides of me have been nailed.

I am currently 154 on hotlap - I take no pride in it.

I did a little innumerating last night.  They seem to be deleting according to a script that is called from a foreach statement.  "Delete where userid is in(query)" type of deal.

Now here is the conspiracy theory.  This is taking a long time, agreed?

Prior to kicking this off I noticed that the new membership was growing at a rate of close to 2500 per day.

The current rate of deletion is less than that - around 1500 per day.

The end result is that the total numbers appears to be growing still, just not at the same rate.

When they are done, then the thing is going to show a spike, the new users and the old guys getting their times back.

Prognostication

There will be something offered to the community at the conclusion of the wipe that can be blamed (accredited) for the spike.  Could be DLC, a placeebo patch, something...  but they will want to show that they still have a vibrant and growing community - what better than a doubled member rate and a "we did it" reason.

Now, hows that for a conspiracy theory.

How far off do you think I am?

[Hekalite]

I believe it was anyone who ran with MT and placed better than Top 5000 on a track...or maybe on Time Trials.  Something to that effect at least...

They are doing the deletes in batches because the queries take a long time to run.  Here are the last few updates from Che's post on FM.net...

UPDATE 9/12 - 11:38 AM

The top 5000 ranked Time Trial entries posted before 8/25 with manual transmission deletion is still churning. About 7000 more users to go. After this batch is done (probably this evening), we will have much fewer query search results for the next target batch which is top 5000 ranked Hotlap entries posted before 8/25 with manual transmission. Why? Because the Time Trial wipe will already have removed probably the majority of the top Hotlap times. In fact, we may even do just a top 1000 wipe of Hotlaps. Time will tell.

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UPDATE 9/11 - 11:46 AM

Unfortunately, the batch wipe I started last night (see below) got a timeout error due to being disconnected from the network server. I resumed the deletion when I got in at 9:30 am and it's now back on track. Again, this deletion is the top 5000 ranked times in Time Trials posted with manual transmission before 8/25. This affects a little over 16k players. Thanks.

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UPDATE 9/10 - 6:30 PM

Current wipe happening is all times under 10 seconds in Time Trials. This hits less than 100 people. After that's done, the wipe I'm going to leave for the evening and I'm sure it'll be running throughout the night and probably well into tomorrow afternoon and beyond, is the top 5000 manual transmission times posted to time trials before 8/25. This affects around 16k players, with just under 1 million entries. More updates tomorrow.

The only reason they are "targeting" MT times, is because that was the most common way to trigger the AWD glitch.  It seems as if there were far too many invalid times due to this issue to find & delete them manually.  They are going to try to manually delete any invalid AT times after they are done with the MT times.  They are going to rely on people reporting suspect times and then they will review the telemetry and delete if necessary.

[Blooze]

lol - I meet all of those criteria yet I continue to exist.  My friends list in Time Trials is currently 4 people.

Like I said, its getting embarassing.

I'll be glad when I get nailed.

[Trystan Spyder]

I'd be happy if they went and deleted all suspect scores before 8/25. But this shotgun approach sucks. I just posted a personal best time last night. It's good for spot 529 on Suzuka full in C class. I haven't been wiped yet, but I've run manual since day one. Why must I lose that time? It was posted after the glitch fix.

[Hekalite]

I agree completely Trystan, but it seems that their rollup scoreboards don't allow them to selectively wipe individual times.  It's all or nothing.  I'm sure if we could see the database structure it would make more sense, but I'm at least starting to get a fuzzy picture of the problem.

[Trystan Spyder]

Then they should have just done a complete wipe and be done with it.

[Big Mooing Cow]

I did a little innumerating last night.  They seem to be deleting according to a script that is called from a foreach statement.  "Delete where userid is in(query)" type of deal.

That's exactly what they're doing, IMHO.  Che said the "delete tool" got "disconnected from the server" one night, which temporarily stopped the delete process.  Given that and the fact that this delete is taking days instead of minutes, it's obvious that their method of deletion is an application of some sort (C#, VB, whatever) that is iterating the database and deleting records.  In pseudo-code:

For each record in database
    If record.transmission = "MT" and record.date < '8/25/07' Then
        record.delete
Next record

That's the most moronic idea I've heard in a long time.  The same thing could be accomplished with SQL, and execute in a few seconds.  You wouldn't need cursors, and if you put the database in single-user mode you could temporarily disable index rebuilds.  The entire process could be completed in a few minutes, tops. 100mil rows is child's play for any SQL Server built in the past ten years.

I'll wait to see what they do when this is all over, but given the tone of their messages thus far, I doubt they're going to do anything for us when it's completed.

Even if they did, it doesn't matter to me anymore.  Che finally responded to my oft-repeated question of what they're going to do to prevent this from happening in the future.  I asked specifically if they are going to make the database easier to "fix", or keep an eye on things closer, etc.  His response was to accuse me of playing "what-if games", and essentially said they're not doing anything except simply deleting bad times now and will deal with future corruption if it happens.

http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/permalink/929558/945839/ShowThread.aspx#945839

To me it says they have done no work to avoid this in the future, they're completely happy with their RandomWipe solution, and if this happens again, they'll just do it again.

I wish there was a way to disable uploading times to the scoreboard.  I don't really care to toss data into what might as well be a Wiki.

Heck, I REALLY wish GT didn't have a crap driving model.