Author Topic: Under The Hood: Part 5.  (Read 415 times)

Big Mooing Cow

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Re: Under The Hood: Part 5.
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2011, 02:33:23 PM »
It's PEOPLE! Soylent green is PEOPLE!!!!

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Big Mooing Cow

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Re: Under The Hood: Part 5.
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2011, 02:39:12 PM »
If PI is heavily weighted on the speed rating, and cars like the AMX and Dart dominate because they have a speed rating artificially-low because of their short gearing, wouldn't it be "best" to keep the stock gears (keeping the PI low) but add as much HP as possible?

Top speed is mostly a function of horsepower, but if your speed rating is capped at a low value by gearing, it stands to reason you could add horsepower and not suffer PI gain from your speed rating going up.  Your PI would only go up for the increase in your launch and acceleration stats.

This seems to mesh with what we're seeing on the boards: people building very high HP cars with short gearing.

I'm gonna go build a cheater car and see how this works.  I don't care about the leaderboards, but I'd like to know exactly what the flaw is here.
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TopBoost

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Re: Under The Hood: Part 5.
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2011, 03:00:17 PM »
Intrigued to see what you come up with.
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GICheeze

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Re: Under The Hood: Part 5.
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2011, 06:32:17 PM »
My thoughts about the leaderboard right now is that they solved their modified input objectives (temporarily, I hope) with triggers.  At least, that is how the database is acting...

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ORG63

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Re: Under The Hood: Part 5.
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2011, 07:16:55 PM »
Soylent Green gives a new meaning to the line, Eat Me.
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Re: Under The Hood: Part 5.
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2011, 07:56:44 PM »
Soylent Green gives a new meaning to the line, Eat Me.

Well played, sir.
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TheJohnNewton

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Re: Under The Hood: Part 5.
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2011, 10:56:54 AM »
Well darn Soylent Green is not streamable from Netflix. 

As for the leaderboard thing I see it as them trying to tweak play balance in the game.  The edge cases, such as super high HP with low top speed, have got to be a bit of a challenge.  As a guy who's worked in IT for 22 years I can't image all the testing that must go into something this complex. 
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Big Mooing Cow

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Re: Under The Hood: Part 5.
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2011, 11:53:38 AM »
My low speed rating experiment was largely a failure.

I bought a Shelby GT500 and put a bunch of power parts on it.  Things were looking good; my PI went up very slowly as I added parts and my speed rating stayed at 3.0.  I could get 20HP for something silly like 3PI.  I ended up with as many power parts as I could get building up to 425PI, and added race brakes, a rear diff, aero, and a little bit of tire for good measure.  The car was an easy drive, but it topped out very low... I forget the max speed, but it was something like 120mph.  Even with all that power, the car was way off the pace on my test track (Catalunya National).  I spent half the straight on the rev limiter.

I bailed on that and bought a Chevelle (did I mention these muscle cars are draining my bank account?).  Same deal: got a bunch of HP for not much PI.  But the result was the same; not a class killer, at least in C.  The Chevelle WAS pretty close to my top time, however.

Next I went looking non-muscle cars to work the same treatment on.  Surely there are some highly gear-limited euro cars out there?  I tried my Abarth, but as I added power its top speed went up.  Same deal with the 60's Z.  I'm starting to lose interest....

Last ditch I grabbed my Dart Super Stock, wiped its tune, and added the mythical Viper swap.  Sure enough, I dropped from C class to E class with the swap, but added horsepower and reduced weight.  I started adding power parts and found that I could get 50HP+ boosts for 1PI.  Ticking off all the power boxes I eventually added power for ZERO PI.  The only part I couldn't add without increasing PI was the cams, which makes sense.  I finished the car off by adding some suspension/brake/weight upgrades (weight was also nearly free) and had my 900HP, 2500lbs car ready to drive.  In E class.  YIKES.

I took the beast to the track and quickly found that the only gear worth using was fourth (top gear).  The car handled OK, its only problem was that it topped out at 110mph.  Well, the other problem was that it had so much power that hitting 110mph was difficult; I had to be glacial on the throttle to avoid wheel spin.  I was basically traction limited to top speed.  (Perhaps the drag tires would have been an advantage?)

I ran a couple laps on Catalunya National to benchmark.  Along the way I found that I could hit 110mph within about 60ft of the last corner exit, and carried it--slowly, and painfully--all the way down the main straight.  My best lap time was six seconds SLOWER than my best car in E.  I tried adding stickier tires and such to improve the car, but I only managed to bump myself up to D, where the competition was stiffer.

With all that power, if I added even the sport tranny (adjustable final drive) I was kicked up to A and beyond.

In the end I'm more confused than when I started.  What parts are the goofballs using to make the Dart a leaderboard killer?  Why doesn't it work on other cars?  The engine swap clearly plays a role, but I could not replicate this phenomena with the other cars.  It appears the PI system is pretty sound with the cars I tested, but it seems I'm not doing SOMETHING right.

I guess I'll just go back to racing for fun and stop trying to peel the skirt back on the seedy underbelly of Forza leaderboard stacking.  Woodward and Berstein would be ashamed.  :)
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Spiny Anteater

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Re: Under The Hood: Part 5.
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2011, 01:15:33 PM »
Moo - did you run with TCS on? I guess that (and maybe STM?) would be pretty much required by the sounds of things.
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Big Mooing Cow

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Re: Under The Hood: Part 5.
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2011, 03:40:48 PM »
I didn't use TCS or STM, but the car was pretty easy to control, to be honest.  I was always on the edge of traction for acceleration, but it wasn't too difficult to manage.  Perhaps TCS would have let me use another 10% HP?  I don't think I really needed it, however, because I was never more than a second or two from top speed.

I guess I should try it and see.  Just driving the car it certainly didn't seem like any of the aids could really improve my time, but perhaps I'm wrong and that's the missing ingredient.

If only I had saved the build <facepalm>
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