Author Topic: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)  (Read 1095 times)

Blooze

  • Administrator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3553
  • ...It's never too early to Panic.
    • View Profile
The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« on: September 28, 2011, 06:25:19 AM »
See what happens when you have a sleepless night on the cusp of a new Forza Cycle?  You dream up stuff like this.  Ta, friggin' da...

Forza Street Rod Association

Or FSRA as it will come to be known.  In order to belong to this organization you must own at least one of a growing list of cars with the following criteria:
  • The car must be found in one of the Forza IV dealerships.
  • Year of manufacture within the Muscle Car Era.  This time span seems to be some what undefined, or more accurately, defined differently by many.  For our purposes; the years between 1964 and 1976.
  • They must be of American manufacture.
  • ahh, come on!  You all know which ones they are.

Cars that may be debated...
  • 1957 TBird and 1960 Corvette.  These are Classics, not generally accepted as Muscle Cars.
  • The Shelby Cobra and Daytona.  The Cobra had an English mfg. Chasis and the Daytona was a full blown race car that was never seen on the streets.
  • The 1977 Trans Am (Bandit's ride) and the 1978 Mustang King Cobra.  The Muscle car era is considered dead at the time these were manufactured.  We'll see...

That leaves us with more than 30 cars to choose from.

The FSRA defines four classes.
  • Street Stock SS
  • Street Tuner ST
  • Street Rod SR
  • Trans Am Golden Era TAGE

Specs: Well, except for the TAG class, there are none, save the descriptions below.  As for the TAGE, we'll work up the specs soon as at least a couple of us have the game in hand.

SS Other than the tuner parts, few if any parts above the Street level.  I have found that most of the muscle cars already include the Street level engine parts, so there will be little to add there anyhow.  The car is brand new.  You just got it.  You don't run out to the parts store and start replacing parts.  It'll screw up your warranty, and your insurance.  Street level tire compound, stock width and rim diameter.  You most likely will have changed rims though...

ST Now you got some miles on 'er.  Some of the new parts are wearing out, so you might as well replace them something that has some heat to it.  You probably have a second car by now so your ride is not responsible for getting to work or grocery fetching duties, so it can spend more time in the shop, getting repaired or updated.  Hopefully, you have a better job by now and you can afford to be a bit frivolous with your baby...  There's a few Sport Level parts now and any Street level parts that weren't added in your SS build.  There may even be an engine swap if it is era specific.  Like you may be able to install a 421 SD (1963) engine in your GTO, or a 427 from a Corvette in your Z-28, or a Thunderbolt 427 into your '65 GT Coupe.  No 2004 crate motors please.  Wider Tires and taller rims now.  You are starting to daydream of magazine covers, and a big photo spread starting on page 26.

SR Okay, now you've gone off the deep end.  The wife is starting to complain about the time and money you spend on the car.  She accuses you of loving your car more than her and you have to bite your tongue. (Note: do not let her see you bite your tongue.  This is the beginning of many divorces)  Now you have almost all the Sport level parts, the widest tires.  Hell, you may be running DOTs now.  You don't drive it much any more, except to the local drag strip, or roundy rounder track if your town has one.  There's autocrosses and poker runs and... and...  Lately you have been checking out trailers, and you bought a small mig welder for your garage recently.

I've built up the spreadsheets for all four classes, and a custom set of leaderboards that include Kaido, the Benchmark, and any other No Am track, real or otherwise.  I am working on a bracket racing idea and a leaderboard to go with it.

 :-\

Okay, I'm sleepy now.  I'm gonna hit the sack.
See y'all later.

;D $
« Last Edit: September 30, 2011, 04:35:28 PM by Blooze »
GTs: Blooze46 / GICheeze

Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

Open2nd

  • Guest
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2011, 10:49:58 AM »
This is very relevant to my interests!

Blooze

  • Administrator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3553
  • ...It's never too early to Panic.
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2011, 05:08:01 AM »
This is very relevant to my interests!
Well jump right in!  You are welcome to any of the spreadsheets that get generated.  Right now and until 10/11 this is just a lot of guess work.

;D



Here's what I have so far...  There are 32 cars that I would call Muscle Cars, 24 of them are new to the game.  Fm3 constricted the garage for the American Muscle with Pre 1971 and US mfg.  I hope that that many cars has caused them to include Muscle Car as a Body Type again.  That will make setting up Multiplayer races much easier to do.

It looks as tho, and I am planning on, the following...
  • The SS class will show up on the D Class Leaderboards
  • The ST class will show up on the C Class Leaderboards
  • The SR class will show up on the B  Class Leaderboards
  • The TA class will show up on the A Class Leaderboards

Notes:
  • My plans are to only use the Muscle Cars in those classes in the GICheeze account.
  • There will be some exceptions and crap like always.  First that I see is that the base Pi for 4 or 5 cars is in the C Class.  May just DQ them for the SS class.

Here's what I have for places to race...
  • Real Life ribbons 11
  • Original ribbons 14
  • Benchmark Ring (or Muscle Inc. Test Pad) 14
  • Ovals 5
  • 1/4 mile drag strips 3
  • Kaido (or Cottonwood Pass) P2P ribbons 12
  • and should DLC resurrect them...   :'(
  • the Snakes (or The Mission) 18
  • and Positano Original 2, and P2P 8

Note:  If we let our imaginations run amock, sooner or later this bunch of redneck hot rodders may end up in a situation that has them locating a flight container for their car and hangin' out at a medical center to get some shots.  Maybe an invitation to run the TAGE cars over at Montegi.  We'll see...

It will be interesting to see how many career events/races I can clear with these track restrictions.

Other than the very first race with the 468 Ferrari, I plan to use a Token to get the '65 GTO.  That way, the GICheeze account will only ever see Muscle Cars.

;D $
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 03:12:33 PM by Blooze »
GTs: Blooze46 / GICheeze

Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

Blooze

  • Administrator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3553
  • ...It's never too early to Panic.
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2011, 04:22:51 PM »
Old Muscle car guys hangin' out at the parts store or a shop like mine usually have to answer two questions;

Whacha got in 'er?
This is not another form of "Hello", like "How's it going?" or "How you doin?".  The answer is usually something cute, like "SOSDD" (Same Old Shit, Different Day), "Better than a whack in the ass with a dull hatchet", something like that.   No one really expects an appropriate answer to these types of questions, and hypochondriacs are unually the only folks who try to answer them appropriately.

But Muscle car guys expect an explicit answer to this question.  And they listen.  And they calculate and judge.  They may ask a question in return, "Stock Cast Iron headers?!  Why?"  There are codes.  Nobody has to ask what the answer "12 bolt" means, or what the question was that prompted the answer for that matter.  There's follow up, "Where'd you get it?", "Who balanced it?", and "How much did it set you back?" 

Some of the group may pretend that they are not listening to the answers, but they are.  Listening for BS, listening for hustlers and sandbaggers.

I hope to be able to (make myself) take the time to really dig into the internet so that I can come up with a more classy answer to the question, "What cam are you runnin?" than "The Sport one..."

And the other question...

What's she run?
Out here in middle USA, everybody is close to a drag strip.  It may be fancy with bleachers and hotdog stands and timers and stuff.  It may just be 440 yds measured off on straight piece of county road, and a buddy with a stop watch.  Muscle car guys know what the quarter mile time is for their car.  The answer will come out like, "high elevens", "twelve one", "low nines."  Somthing like that.  It surprises me that I have messed with Forza Muscle cars this long and can't answer that question about my Boss 429. 

Those two questions...

Whacha got in 'er?
What's she run?

FSRA guys can answer them.

;D $
 
GTs: Blooze46 / GICheeze

Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

Blooze

  • Administrator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3553
  • ...It's never too early to Panic.
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2011, 03:51:16 PM »
Bracket Racing

For discussion's sake, we will deal with Drag Racing for now as the events were presented in Fm3

The process is to run all 9 heats of a Drag Event.  The "Bracket part will involve declaring a Dial-In time and trying to run as close to it as possible.  Any run faster than the Dial-In is a "Break Out" and the race is over.  Another number used will be called "The Scoring Zone".  It is starting out at 0.10 but will get smaller most likely as one get's better at this.

Let's say that you Dial-In a 15.5 with your very stock 1993 Mustang Cobra R.  Your best ever ET is a 15.483 but you are pretty confident that that is as good as it will run.  Now you make the 9 passes, recording the times as you go.  If you hit a time that is less than 15.5, you have to quit right then and take your score.  Any time that is between 15.5 and 15.6 (Dial-In + Scoring Zone) scores a point.  Any time greater than 15.6 does not score.  So, in a 9 pass run, scoring a 9 is the best that you can do.  If you break out on the 4th pass, you may have a new low ET, but you only have credits from 4 passes and the score from 3 passes.

I've never run a drag race from a private room - that may be worth checking out.  I suspect it involves a bunch of load time, which is why I've never tried it.

Right now, it pretty much sounds like a mess and hardly worth the effort.  But I like the idea of knowing what my cars ET for the quarter mile is, and if it is at all possible to win a little money doing it, it falls right into my small town Friday Nite fantasies...

;D $

Edit Another idea would be to score break outs as a -1.  In a 15 pass event, scores anywhere from -15 to 15 would be possible.  Or, score 0 for break out, 1 for win out of zone, 2 for win in the zone...  or maybe...

 :-\
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 04:41:33 PM by Blooze »
GTs: Blooze46 / GICheeze

Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

Spiny Anteater

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 2044
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2011, 02:50:53 AM »

I've never run a drag race from a private room - that may be worth checking out.  I suspect it involves a bunch of load time, which is why I've never tried it.

Right now, it pretty much sounds like a mess and hardly worth the effort.  But I like the idea of knowing what my cars ET for the quarter mile is, and if it is at all possible to win a little money doing it, it falls right into my small town Friday Nite fantasies...

It does - you'll spend about 75% of the time watching the track load and only about 25% actually racing. But it will be much quicker if you do 9 heats in one tournament rather than going back to the menu 9 times. It's those loading times coupled with the short (and boring in FM3 if I'm honest) nature of the races which has meant I've done a minimal amount of drag races.
Pleading Guilty to Cone Genocide

Go Random - Trust to Fate :)

GT: Spiny Anteater

Blooze

  • Administrator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3553
  • ...It's never too early to Panic.
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2011, 05:20:24 AM »
Sega GT's version of the drag race was not too bad.  Depending on your level, you were pitted against an increasing number of opponents, I've forgotten the numbers, but the S Class opponent list was pretty large.  Anyhow, you did manage to avoid the big load time hit by staying in the game and continuing to win.

Let's face it, by it's very nature, drag racing is a boring race to run.  Were it not for reaction time and missing shifts, the results of a drag race are entirely calcuable.  There's a formula for doing just that in my Auto Math book.  I used to use it in a former version of the Trans Mission Calculator.  I may break it out again for the car information sheet, and save actual running of the Drag Races for RPG types of shinanigans.

Except, I do have some ideas about spring rate and weight bias and with the new tire physics and Launch recalc and the new Drag Compound and Pro Stock hoods and cars like the Thunderbolt ...

It might be fun to throw a little effort toward Drag Racing this time out.  Ya never know, they could sooprize us!

;D $
GTs: Blooze46 / GICheeze

Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

TheJohnNewton

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1200
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #7 on: October 05, 2011, 08:54:37 AM »
Me Likey (well except for the drag races  ;)  )  It seemed in FM3 this place kind of lost the muscle car focus that drew me here in the first place.
GT: Qmole
GT: TheJohnNewton - Muscle Cars Only
Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

Blooze

  • Administrator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3553
  • ...It's never too early to Panic.
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #8 on: October 05, 2011, 04:28:53 PM »
There's 500+ cars in Forza and only 32 of them are Muscle Cars.


I managed to chase down those Quarter Mile calculations.  The book I got them out of is the The Auto Math Handbook by John Lawlor.  He attributes the equations to a feller name of Patrick Hale and a program he wrote named Quarter.  The program was a bit too difficult for most drag racers to take advantage of, primarily because it required highly sophisticated telemetry and data gathering systems in order to supply the variables required by his calculations.  However, over time spent processing mounds and piles of mounds of this type of data, he was able to come up with a couple simple equations that used a fudge factor and the car's weight and Hp and produced the Car's ET and Mph within tolerable tolerances.

Here is the one for the ET in Excel speak:
=IF(AW18=0,0,((AW19/AW18)^(1/3))*5.825)

This one solves for terminal velocity in MPH:
=IF(AW19=0,0,((AW18/AW19)^(1/3))*234)

Where...
  • the IF statement is a Divide by Zero trap.
  • Cell AW18 contains a reference to the car's Hp
  • Cell AW19 contains a reference to the car's weight
  • the ^(1/3) construct is how one solves for the cube root using Excel
  • the 5.825 value is the ET fudge factor
  • the 234 value is the MPH fudge factor.

If you use a tuning sheet of some sort, just copy these functions to a couple cells and fix the references so that they point to the Hp and Weight and you will be in business.  

So, when asked, "What's she run?" I will most usually answer with the results of these functions rather than take every car in my garage to the drag strip when building and testing.

There will be cars that are built specifically for the Quarter Mile - those are a whole different story.

I heard a rumor t'other day that the TV Show Pinks All Out might be coming to the Muscle Inc Test Pad later this fall...  around Thanksgiving or around in there.  That would be cool...

;D $
« Last Edit: October 05, 2011, 04:36:56 PM by Blooze »
GTs: Blooze46 / GICheeze

Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

TopBoost

  • Engineer
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
  • Roll Tide
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2011, 09:40:13 PM »
Street Stock Series? Sign me up, fellers!

I'm with TJN, as well. Give me the Muscle Cars any day.

Stoked about this.
GT - TopBoost323

PhantomGinn

  • Dyno Technician
  • ***
  • Posts: 210
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2011, 12:08:59 AM »
Hm, I will most likely be interested in this, it looks interesting. The drag racing idea looks intriguing too, aside from the load times. I may have to start prepping cars for this

bimmerlovere39

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1775
  • JEi Track Cars
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2011, 04:37:50 PM »

I heard a rumor t'other day that the TV Show Pinks All Out might be coming to the Muscle Inc Test Pad later this fall...  around Thanksgiving or around in there.  That would be cool...

;D $

*ahem*

YOU WERE SANDBAGGING MAN.  I WANT AT LEAST 74 LENGTHS.

That is all.  ;D



Seriously though drag racing is a lot more fun in this iteration of the game!
It is highly likely that the above post was produced with a drippy jowl.

Blooze

  • Administrator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 3553
  • ...It's never too early to Panic.
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2011, 08:52:14 AM »
Here's the first of my FSRA cars, and one that was a personal baby for many years.

1965 Pontiac GTO


Most of the engine parts for the '65 are Street level already and there is little that can be gained there.  I added the Street exhaust, which amounts to a set of Cherry Bombs, and upgraded the Spark Plugs and Wires.  btw, wheres the Accel decal?   I suppose I am going to have to make my own...

The tire compounds have under gone a major refactoring - the Race Tranny and Street Compound used up all of the 75 Pi points between D and C.

The Gear Spreader was configured to work with a 4 speed for these FSRA cars - the gears hilited below are considered the default set.  All tweakage, if tweakage is requred, stems from there.  So far none has been needed.

The Setup is straight from the Fm3 version of the Tonka Toy.  I haven't run it much since I bought the tires (I started out trying to keep it in D).  When you set your races up to C Class & <= 1974 you wind up running against a bunch of heavy hittin' Mopars and the little GTO manages to hold its own quite nicely.

The American Torq-Thrusters round out the package quite nicely.  It's a slick rig, all set to go fetch the groceries...  really fast!

 ;D


  • Hp: 371
  • Tq: 439
  • Wt: 3474

Gears
  • FD = 3.30
  • 1-6= 2.89; 1.89; 1.34; 1.00; 1.00; 1.00

Setup
Wt Bias - SWR
50.00%
42.00%
Parameter     Front      Rear   
Tires
28.5
28.0
Camber
-1.0
-0.8
Toe
0.1
-0.1
Caster
5.0
ARB (52/32)
12.79
11.80
Springs
729.6
729.5
Height
7.3
7.4
Rebound
7.6
7.2
Bump
3.8
3.8
Aero
0
0
Brakes
48
102
Front Diff
0
0
Rear Diff
32
0
Torque
0




;D
GTs: Blooze46 / GICheeze

Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge

DirtDriver

  • Administrator
  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1104
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2011, 12:04:54 PM »
She's a thing o' beauty, Bloozeman!

DD

TheJohnNewton

  • Muscle Car Guru
  • *****
  • Posts: 1200
    • View Profile
Re: The FSRA (Forza Street Rod Association)
« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2011, 12:21:49 PM »
So what's she run?  ;)
GT: Qmole
GT: TheJohnNewton - Muscle Cars Only
Proud Owner: Perfect Drift = 0 Badge