Author Topic: A Class - The one where Blooze gets away?  (Read 1771 times)

Spiny Anteater

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A Class - The one where Blooze gets away?
« on: April 03, 2011, 03:34:56 AM »
As you'll have seen in the "normal" threads, I suspect Blooze is going to escape on the P2P's here. Here are the culprits for aiding and abetting the escape of this wanted racer...

Lamborghini Diablo SV (Drag): Why are the drag races so bad in Forza? At least an RWD car like this one means you have to balance the throttle so not every run is the same. Overall, this only lost a second to Blooze, and all of that was on the shorter tracks where traction is paramount. On the mile run, the higher top speed became more important and it regained some lost pride.

Vauxhall Monaro (Ovals, Ladera): A power build meant I was able to run almost 900bhp on the larger ovals giving a 225mph top speed. I should have used the Corvette engine swap though as that would have given more power still. On the ovals, the car was very good and reasonably stable despite the rubbishy tyres used although it isn't quick enough to challenge the best cars. I'd have expected it to struggle on Ladera being a big, heavy, overpowered V8, but it can be made surprisingly grippy in A Class and the times were within the top 1% on five out of the six tracks. It was certainly much better than expected on the short tracks, and worth a look if you want to surprise people.

Chevrolet Corvette C3 ZR-1 (Amalfi): Despite setting top 1% times in both directions, this car was off the pace of a significant chunk of my friends list. It's not a bad car, just not the best at getting it's power down so it lost out in the traction zones. A lot of fun in the mid-speed corners though.

Shelby Cobra Daytona (Benchmark): This car can be made very light, and surprisingly grippy. Another fun car to drive, the times are actually pretty good although with few people running the tracks the percentages aren't. It's not going to make back the 9 million CR I paid for it, but with good acceleration and handling it could surprise a few people at times.

Chevrolet Camaro (Camino): This surprised me in exactly the same way as it did down in F Class - the grip was good but it lacked power to really set good times on the more open Full and Extreme tracks. I was very impressed with it on the Mini and Short tracks, which should tell you something about the handling.

SEAT Leon Supercup (Catalunya): This is a very good car when in stock form, but even upgrading it one class to A causes issues. Being FWD, it really struggled to put the power down out of the slow corners. Having only small amounts of downforce, it struggled in the fast corners, and yet also had a low top speed so didn't gain much on the straights. It's only in medium pace corners where grip (as opposed to traction) was in play where the car felt good.

BMW M3 E92 (Iberian): Despite being another big heavy car, it actually gripped pretty well around here. Top 1% times at 5 of the 6 tracks should give an indication of how well it has done as a grip build produces a good mix of grip and speed for this tracks. It didn't do quite as well at the Mini version of the track though as the weight really held it back a lot here.

Chevrolet Chevelle (Kaido): I think this one is already pretty well known. On paper this is about as bad a match as it's possible to get with such a powerful, non-grippy car on a tight twisty circuit. In the end, the car had 589bhp even with full weight reduction and full grip, but could be made manageable and fun to drive, just not quick.

SEAT Ibiza (Laguna Seca): There seems to be a trend in A Class where it has become obvious that FWD is losing it's competitiveness. Even though this is my best A Class car around Laguna, the times were nothing to write home about as it struggled for traction. Oddly though, I would say this one was more driveable than the Leon Supercup above.

Saab 9-3 Aero (Le Mans): On the Bugatti track, this car wasn't as quick as my 911, but it retrieved it's reputation on the long tracks. 713bhp and FWD sounds like a recipe for disaster, but with a bit of throttle control it was surprisingly driveable, and very quick with top 1% times at both long tracks. Oddly, the biggest handling issue I had to try and tune out wasn't on-throttle understeer but some truly massive lift-off oversteer - I think this one may be about the ultimate FWD drift car before I messed with the settings.

Shelby Series 1 (Maple Valley): I really enjoyed drving this, and the lap times were pretty quick too. It's not the most exciting car around, but gets on with the job in a calm, efficient way yet is an enjoyable car to drive as you can put it almost exactly where you want it.

2004 Honda Civic (Motegi): Another FWD with the same traction issues as the SEATs. But, leaving aside a few struggles on the full track, the car managed to set some good times at the others. It would probably struggle to make up time to an average RWD around here, but I don't think it would lose much (at East and West anyway) either.

Maserati Gran Turismo (Mugello): Too big and heavy to really do well at this track and the Porsche 997RS I used when Dirt set us a challenge here over a year ago was faster at both ribbons. I get the impression my driving has improved somewhere since then though, as even though the car felt worse than the 997, the times were only a couple of tenths off the pace I set a year ago.

Mitsubishi GTO (Nuerburgring Nordschleife): I didn't think much of this when I ran it at Laguna in D Class where it was just dull. Fortunately, by the time it got up to A Class it turned out to be much, much better as evidenced by me getting to 1% times on all the P2Ps and the full track. Even with a car which could hit 190mph on the straight, it still handled ok and never felt out of control - it's probably been one of the best performers of the A Class randoms.

2010 SEAT Leon (Nuerburgring GP): Another SEAT, and disappointing too. I'm not particularly good at the 'Ring GP anyway, but with all those tight corners I just couldn't get the power down in this. And it wasn't all that fast on the straights so I didn't even pull the lost time back when I got the speed up. The best that can be said is that it was at least faster than an old 2010 Camaro tune.

VW Beetle (New York): This should have been another bad one, but for some reason it wasn't. It almost feels in A Class as though the FWDs are going better with more power and less power, although I think it's more likely that with fewer tight corners and more straights the traction is becoming less of an issue. This one actually handled pretty well too, and careful management of the throttle meant it set decent, although not brilliant, times.

Porsche 930T (Positano): Solid is probably the best way to describe this. It set times within the top 5% on all the P2Ps, and top 1% on the full track without ever feeling like it was going to challenge the leaderboard cars. I never did manage to completely eliminate the understeer with this - if I went too far that famous twitchy 911 rear end just became too uncontrollable. But, overall this was less fearsome that would be expected.

Honda NSX-R GT (Road America): I don't know if I got the build wrong on this, but knowing that the NSX is the car to have in RWDs I was expecting more than I got from it. I can't really put my finger on why it wasn't as good as expected - it handled decently and wasn't slow in a straight line. Maybe I just needed a more power biased build on it ???

Lamborghini Mucielago (Road Atlanta): This is a good car as evidenced by it setting top 1% times on both ribbons. I certainly wouldn't want to race it as I think it would take a lot of beating. But it's really boring to drive...

Aston Martin Vanquish (Sebring): It's big, heavy and powerful, but that weight seems to have hindered it somewhat. Although the percentages are pretty good, I went faster at some of the tracks in stock cars and ultimately this was a bit of a disappointment.

2004 Cadillac CTS-V (Sedona): What I wrote for the Aston above could just as easily be applied to this, only more so. It wasn't especially manoeuverable on the Club section, and the straight line speed on the oval wasn't enough to make up for this. Another disappointment I'm afraid.

Lotus Evora (Sidewinder): I was quite pleased with this one. For a Lotus it's quite heavy but it is well balanced and as a result was a lot of fun to drive. Compared to many of the cars I came across in A Class, it had lots of grip and this was probably a big factor in its success around here.

Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint (Silverstone): I'm told this makes a very good A Class car, but I think that that requires the 4WD swap and is also more for tracks where acceleration is priority. The times were not as bad as I feared, but it struggled on the fast corners which are a hallmark of Silverstone - to be honest this car felt worse than the times suggested.

2003 Dodge Viper SRT (Sunset): OK, it's a Viper and so looks very leaderboardy, but the car is still a lot of fun without the dreaded 4WD swap. It's also still pretty quick as was borne out by the times, and is also a consistent performer so will be good in races too.

2000 Audi S4 (Suzuka): In a word - boring. Yes, it's quick, even around a flowing track like Suzuka which shouldn't really suit it. But the times, although good, are not spectacular and there's not excitement with the car. While I respect the performance of the car, I can't get excited about it.

Infiniti G35 (Tsukuba): Big heavy car, tight twisty track - yet it's the B Class Sidewinders all over again. Yet the times actually aren't too bad. Not in a setting the world alight kind of way, but they are respectable. It's the RWD drivetrain and heavy weight which is stopping it challenging the best cars here rather than any handling demons.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2011, 11:17:16 AM by Spiny Anteater »
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Spiny Anteater

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Re: A Class - The one where Blooze gets away?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2011, 11:23:55 AM »
Just added a few more cars to this.
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Spiny Anteater

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Re: A Class - The one where Blooze gets away?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2011, 11:18:43 AM »
And that's A Class done.

So far there doesn't seem much point in doing this for S Class - most of the cars reports would just say "Too much power, not enough grip" :o As examples, both the Monaro and Corvette C2 required grip builds.... and both are still packing in excess of 900bhp so need a careful control of the throttle.
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Blooze

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Re: A Class - The one where Blooze gets away?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2011, 01:08:23 PM »
Quote from: Spiny
So far there doesn't seem much point in doing this for S Class - most of the cars reports would just say "Too much power, not enough grip"

I think that very few of the F - E - and even D class cars will make very good S Class cars for that very reason.  Most of those cars that I have chased up stream usually had all the grip possible installed by B Class, the BCG Eclipse for example.  It starts out as an E Class and makes a pretty good A Class car because, for my build, it probably a little Hp light in B, but I doubt that it would do very well in S Class, primarily because the grip that it has in B is all that there is.

That could have a tendency to make S Class fairly frustrating.  Have you given any thought to maybe ammending your rules as far as upgrade-ability goes?

:) $
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Spiny Anteater

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Re: A Class - The one where Blooze gets away?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2011, 12:22:09 PM »
I think there is a new rule appeared for S Class - I have decided to allow drivetrain upgrades where excessive power demands it.

There's only one problem. Both the Monaro and the Corvette only have RWD available and so I ended up sticking with them. In truth, they were actually much easier to drive than you would expect for 900bhp - it was less the traction holding them back than the cornering grip.

Now I'm onto Kaido it's a similar situation (2003 MINI) although with only 450bhp on tap there is much less of an issue. However, as it only reaches 642PI I'm a little outgunned in the PI stakes, not to mention being FWD it's not great out of the tight hairpins. That said, I've only run the A P2P so hopefully when I get to the downhills it will do much better. I must admit that after that 976bhp Corvette, I was glad to get something a little less power oriented for Kaido. :o
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Re: A Class - The one where Blooze gets away?
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2011, 03:53:00 AM »
Spiny,

I'm a little embarrassed as this but this is the first time I've had a proper look in your garage.  :-[ :-[

Nonetheless, I' think this is a great way of making notes about what your cars have done and where. It's something I may consider adopting myself for FM4. Very nice job.

It is interesting for me to see how you go about things as both you and Blooze are the two people on my friends list that generally have better times than me so I'm continually chasing you down.

Are all your car choices done through your randomiser thingy?
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Spiny Anteater

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Re: A Class - The one where Blooze gets away?
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2011, 11:47:31 AM »
Thanks - it's nice to hear that it's proved worthwhile :) As you can probably see, I gave up at A Class as S Class would have been very repetitive - almost every car I ran would have had "Needs more grip, difficult to put the power down" as it's summary. Ironically, by the time I hit R3 the reading would have been more interesting. Sure there were still woefully overpowered cars, but also some which were a lot of fun to drive. And that's not just race cars which are more interesting - the Mk6 Golf R proved to be really entertaining on the Sidewinders.

Now that I'm going through R2, I've narrowed the cars down to ones which start in A to R2 classes. That's mainly because there would be an awful lot being picked by the randomiser which would be unable to reach R2, so I'm just weeding out the lower classes as the vast majority wouldn't reach R2 and it would take up a lot of time selecting cars.

...

Are all your car choices done through your randomiser thingy?

Pretty much. I used the randomiser to choose all my cars for career, and then again all of them for the hotlapping. Where the randomiser hasn't been used is in online racing (where I've just gone with whatever I've felt like in the garage, although the choice of tuned cars in the garage was determined by the randomiser originally) and for the competitions I've entered over at FMUK where again I've gone for a car of my choice. So some of the times you see on the leaderboard are chosen by me, but most of the ones, particularly outside of C, B and A are in cars picked by the randomiser.
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