Author Topic: My Cool Wall  (Read 6286 times)

fndrbndr

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My Cool Wall
« on: January 20, 2009, 08:51:13 PM »
With Forza beginning to die down a bit, I've been craving some regular car talk.  I'm stealing this idea from Top Gear, but I think it's a good way to evaluate cars.  I've divided cars into seriously uncool, uncool, cool, and sub zero.  This is despite my hunch that, at least stateside, cool people probably don't use phrases like "seriously uncool" or "sub zero."  I'm the final arbiter of all things cool (another phrase cool people would likely not use), but discussion is encouraged.  I'll keep this post for the actual wall, and discussions will take place below.

Sub Zero
Lotus Elise
Porsche 911
Audi R8
BMW Z4

Cool
Corvette (current gen)
Mazda MX-5 (Miata)
Nissan GT-R
BMW M3
Chrysler 300C
Audi RS4
Jaguar XJR
Fiat 500 Abarth
Golf GTI
Scion TC
Aston Martin DB9
TVR (any)
Mini Cooper
Mazda RX8
Smart Roadster
Jeep Wrangler

Uncool
Porsche Boxster
Honda Civic
Dodge Charger
Audi TT
Pontiac G8 (over Bimmer's objections)
Chrysler Sebring convertible
Toyota Solara convertible
Smart ForTwo
Merc G class (Sorry, Bimmer)
Mitsubishi Lancer
Mitsubishi Eclipse

Seriously Uncool
Hummer H3
VW New Beetle
Scion XB
Chevy Matiz (Aveo?)
Honda Fit
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 11:00:06 PM by fndrbndr »
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fndrbndr

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2009, 09:15:13 PM »
A few discussions to get things started:

Lotus Elise.  The first time I saw one of these on the highway, I trailed it for three exits trying to figure out what in the world it was.  I was in love.  When I got to work, I googled "Lotus," the only badge I could see, and was in love with the idea of a four cylinder that could compete with a Corvette.  Maybe it's a little more pedestrian in Britain, where I'd imagine it's more common, but I've only seen a few here.  Someone who drives a Lotus has a very particular taste, and knows what he/she wants.  What's not to love?

Porsche 911.  This has been the sportscar for longer than I've been alive.  At this rate, I suspect it will be adorning bedroom walls long after I'm gone.

Mazda MX-5.  This is a personal favorite, so there's no shock that I think it's cool.  It's the best of both worlds, Japanese reliability and the fun of a British sportscar.  It's got a strong aftermarket (Flyin Miata, anyone?), but has avoided the ridiculous ricer culture that seems to ruin any halfway decent sportscar that comes out of Japan. 

Corvette (Current Gen).  This has always been the best bang for the buck in the sportscar world, and it's a nice car to boot.  Still, it's a bit of a standard choice.  I can't see calling it sub-zero, but it's definitely cool.

Nissan GT-R.  I almost wanted to call this one uncool.  I don't like it.  The design does nothing for me.  Then again, the car has a following, and there's no doubt that it's a performer.  I don't think it's a rival to the Corvette (AWD and a rear seat will target a different demographic, I think), but it's definitely got a following. 

BMW M3.  BMW's are cool, but just barely.  They're quite possibly the perfect compromise between livability and performance, arguably the ideal entertaining but practical daily driver.  The look, however, is at best a bit boring, even on the M's.  Sorry, Bimmer.  The chassis is sub zero, and the body on top of it is uncool.  Sorry, Bimmer, but I'll split the difference and admit that it's cool.

Porsche Boxster.  A Porsche Boxster says one thing: "I wish I'd gotten the 911." 

Honda Civic.  This car says one thing:  I think my FF economy car is a 911.  It's not the people who want a reliable form of transportation that ruin this car.  It's the aftermarket folks who do it.  I despise the ridiculous body kits, the rear spoilers for massive downforce on a FWD car (WTF???), the careful weight reduction in the body panels just to add 500 lbs of speakers and amps for a sound system....I could go on, but I think I'll stop here.

Hummer H3.  This is an attempt to be manly while buying a soccer mom SUV.  If you're going to drive a soccer mom SUV, that's fine, but don't try to hide it behind a badge.

VW New Beetle.  I liked the old beetle.  The rear engine small car with lots of customization options in the aftermarket was everything the Civic should be.  The new one, though, is truly sad.  A front-engine, FWD layout is a disappointment, and they've turned it into a girl car.  What's worse, the really hot girls don't drive them; the annoying chubby girls with who think they're far hotter than they are do. 

Well, those are the choices for now.  Feel free to agree, disagree, or even flame a bit (that's the point, really).  If you want to start your own, then please do.  Actually, that would be particularly fun.  Anyway....thoughts?
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bimmerlovere39

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2009, 10:28:03 PM »
What's worse, the really hot girls don't drive them; the annoying chubby girls with who think they're far hotter than they are do. 

LMFAO  :D

On the Civic: VTEC: Because you need a fancy brand name to tell people you have no torque below 6000rpm.
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fndrbndr

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2009, 11:29:11 PM »
OK, a couple more:

Dodge Charger:  I'd say it's a muscle car for family men, but there are two things wrong with that statement.  First, muscle cars aren't for family men.  Muscle cars are for the guys fathers love to hate; they're not for fathers.  Even if they were, there's no such thing as a four door muscle car, and even if there were, it wouldn't be that heavy.  This is nothing like the original Charger, a car near and dear to me.  I think most guys my age or slightly older grew up watching a distinctive Dodge Charger run from the cops.  We all rode our bikes through the dirt pretending to run from corrupt local sherrifs who were under the thumb of the local industry.  This is nothing, and I mean nothing, like the General Lee.  The muscle car formula, for me, at least, is a relatively small two-door car with an engine that would move a much larger car comfortably.  Well, zero out of three ain't bad.  Oh, wait, yes it is.  Uncool.

Chrysler 300C: This is the same car, mechanically, as the Dodge Charger.  However, it admits its real identity: a comfortable cruiser with some luxuries, a few extra creature comforts, and a design for those who are hip, as opposed to those who may soon break one.  (Cadillac, Lincoln, and the Ford Crown Vic, I'm looking at you.)  The vaguely Rolls Royce-esque design is pleasant, but looks modern.  It's also one of the few cars I don't hate when dressed up with bigger rims, two-tone paint, and other typical aftermarket mistakes.  Cool, even if I wouldn't buy one.

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larryCR

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2009, 05:29:02 AM »
On the Lotus Elise: Last year at a Road America driving school I stood on the pit wall and watched the braking points for cars approaching turn 1. A guy in a mildly modded Elise was really interesting to see. He barely had a braking point at all. This car would come tearing down the straight and only just give the brakes a dab right before turn-in. And it's not like he was going that much slower than the other machines - he wasn't. But with R compound tires on a really lightweight car, turn 1 became only a little kink in the road.

I wouldn't want an Elise for a daily driver (way too hard to get in and out of), but what a track car!

larryCR

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2009, 05:59:17 AM »
My list would also include the Audi RS4. Like the M3, but an even better compromise between livability and performance. Mine is my daily driver and it is oh so comfortable. Plus the sound is to die for and it goes like stink.

bimmerlovere39

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2009, 11:13:52 AM »
General Lee, small?   :o

I thought the Muscle Car Formula was mid size car, big engine, and the pony car fomula was small car, bigish engine.



Pontiac G8: Definitely cool.  American M5.  'Nuff said.

Audi R8: Sub Zero.  Just look at it.

Audi TT Cabrio: uncool.  Just look at it.  :D
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fndrbndr

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2009, 12:09:36 PM »
OK, mid-size with a big engine.  Point well taken.  The Charger doesn't achieve that either.  It's a sedan with a big engine.

Audi R8:  I'm with you here.  That is a car that is both awesome and distinctive.  Plus, there's something to be said for AWD.

Audi TT: Yeah, it's got a reputation as a bit of a lightweight in the performance department.  I haven't driven one, so I can't say, but it's not exactly exciting.

Audi RS4: I don't really think it's Sub-Zero, but yeah, it's cool.  I love a car with good, livable performance that doesn't scream, "Look at me!  I need to be the center of attention!"  This is especially true since those same cars tend to scream, "Look at me!  I'm speeding, and need legal documentation of that fact!"

Pontiac G8:  What do they teach kids in school thesedays?  The M3 is on the cool side because of the benefit of the doubt.  The G8 might be an ATTEMPT at an American M5.  That much, I'll grant you.  It looks like a Grand Am with a body kit, though.  And frankly, it doesn't have the heritage of an M5, which is part of what gives the BMW its cool factor.  I'll have to disagree here.  Uncool.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 12:13:00 PM by fndrbndr »
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Spiny Anteater

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2009, 01:50:22 PM »
A few comments (in red) from our side of the pond (and apologies to larry and bimmer in advance because Audis and BMWs seem to have a worse reputation over here).

Sub Zero
Lotus Elise Cool, there's many more around over here so to get sub-zero I think you'd be looking at Exige or the Vauxhall VX220 (which is still one I want to buy)
Porsche 911 Again, sheer numbers over here would prevent it becoming cool. I must see 2 or 3 every day. At least
Audi R8 I'm not a huge fan myself, and the stupid LED lights and surprisingly innocuous exhaust note really don't do it for me. I'd say this is about average, only excaping being uncool becuase of it's rarity. Of course, there's plenty over here that disagree ;)

Cool
Corvette (current gen) Personally i want to say sub-zero because there's so few around. Last year 13 were sold in Britain. But I just love it
Mazda MX-5 (Miata) The original is cool, I'm still making up my mind on the current gen as it looks fat and blobby now
Nissan GT-R I love this car, really want it to be cool. But, I'm not sure
BMW M3 Scores way too high on the cock-o-meter to be anything other than seriously uncool.
Chrysler 300C A car I am seriously considering for my next car (a shortlist of 3 which also includes the Focus and VX220). I say it's cool, but I don't know wnyone else in real life who agrees with me
Audi RS4 It appears that drivers high on the cock-ometer may be moving towards Audis from the BMWs over here. As it's still quite rare I think it can remain cool, but that situation is under review

Uncool
Porsche Boxster A car which wants to be a 911 and averages £7000 to fix each repair. Not to mention being one of the most unreliable cars around. I think it lose it's cool factor ages ago - seriously uncool
Honda Civic I agree, but for different reasons. Not much aftermarket over here, but these cars seem to be the preserves of old people so uncool at best
Dodge Charger Not available over here, but from the Forza model it seems to epitomise the worst of the sterotypical American car - escapes being uncool just by the rarity factor
Audi TT It just seems to try too hard. I think it is uncool at best
Pontiac G8 (over Bimmer's objections) Don't even know what this is like, so pass

Seriously Uncool
Hummer H3 How can I disagree with this?
VW New Beetle The only objection I have to this is that "seriously uncool" makes it seem cooler than it deserves. It should have a nice warm spot in hell all to itself.

Well, that's just my opinion, and most people would probably disagree. As for sub-zero, I'd have to say the Fiat 500 (which has the value and fun factor to go with it's looks), cool I'll nominate the Jaguar XJR (looks great and was driven by Hannibal Lector) and how can you have seriously uncool without including the Chevrolet Matiz which evokes sympathy in me for the driver every time I see one.

Pics:
Fiat 500: http://www.fiat.co.uk/showroom/?id=10023#showroom/new_500 (ignore the annoying commentary)
Jag: http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=99&i=6904
Chevrolet Matiz: http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/matiz/matiz-exterior-views-images-01.html
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fndrbndr

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2009, 03:15:38 PM »
First, your suggestions, then some comments on your comments:

The fiat....well, it would be unforgivably uncool here, where a 62 hp diesel that takes 12 seconds to get to 60 mph would be a hazard on the interstates.  It does have a certain euro charm, though, so I don't think it's seriously uncool. 

Chevy Matiz doesn't exist here, at least with that badge.  I think they call it the Aveo here, and it's also, IMO, seriously uncool.

Jag....how can I disagree with that?  I'm yet to see a jag that I didn't think was cool.

Now for your comments:
I'm intrigued by a couple of cultural factors here.  I kind of figured the Lotus would be more common in Britain, but I'm surprised at how few 'vettes are sold.  I mean, 13?  I know Britain's way less populous than the US, but I have a hard time imagining that there would be any car available int he US that sells so little.  I mean, outside of car shows, I've seen 3 Lotii in the flesh (er....aluminum?).  I'm sure there are more than 13 Lotii registered in any state in the US, with the possible exception of Utah, Montana, Alaska, etc., where there just aren't that many people. 

As for the cock-o-meter comments....I'm intrigued.  I'd say the Corvette is probably the douchebag status symbol car in the deep south, though there were plenty of Porsches when I lived in a well-off section of Orlando.  BMW drivers seem to be people who sometimes overestimate their driving ability (I should never be able to tail a 3 series in a Nissan Altima if the 3 series is trying even a little bit), and I'm sure some of them register on the cock-o-meter, but the impression I'm getting from your comments and Jeremy Clarkson's comments indicate that they're actually the majority in Britain.  Can't speak to the Audi owners.  Larry seems OK.   :D
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Spiny Anteater

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2009, 05:00:34 PM »
I see what you're saying about the Fiat 500 diesel, which is easily the least fashionable of the Fiat 500s. But the Abarth is way cool (apart from the wheels), even if it probably will suffer a massive electrical failure in the first year of ownership.

http://www.fiat.co.uk/500abarth/

We have the Chevrolet Aveo over here. The Matiz is the model below it in the range having a 0.8 litre engine instead of the Aveo's 1.4 litre. If the diesel Fiat 500 is too slow for American roads I dread to think what you'd make of the Matiz - 0-62mph takes over 18 seconds, or about 22 seconds for the automatic :o

I think the Corvette probably sold a bit better in previous years, but this last year it will have been hammered by a combination of high fuel prices, the probability of massive rises in road tax (such as it being proposed to charge over £400 ($600) per year) and only being available in left hand drive. So that's why only 13 were sold.

There seems to be something about BMW drivers over here where they can't seem to see a gap in traffic without diving in it, can't see a rear bumper without driving up to it and haven't yet discovered the use of their indicators. Apart from one I came across who had discovered them, but hadn't worked out that they should be used when turning rather than all the time... And Audi drivers here seem to be trying to emulate them. It does sound though as if that type of driver in the States drives different cars though.
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fndrbndr

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2009, 05:35:23 PM »
Nah, that's just all the drivers over here.  Don't believe me?  Ask Hop. 

OK, the Abarth, I can get behind.  It looks like a fun, lightweight little car, and still has that euro chic appeal.  It's not Sub-Zero, but it's definitely cool.

I think your explanation of the Matiz explains why I haven't heard of it.  With the impatience you see on the on-ramps around here, someone in a Matiz would quickly be put out of his/her misery.
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larryCR

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2009, 05:47:38 PM »
Spiny: High on the cock-ometer. Very nice.  ;) I'm not, but my car is. If the RS4 is rare now it will get rarer. They made few and they're making no more (the B7 chassis variety I mean).

Fender: Couldn't agree with you more on the riced up look of the G8 or the stealth factor of the RS4. Only car guys have a clue what an RS4 is.

On the TT: The Mark II TTS is trying hard and succeeding. You guys may need to revise your opinions of the machine.

bimmerlovere39

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2009, 10:29:55 PM »
Larry, for the record...

Cool:


SERIOUSLY Uncool:
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larryCR

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Re: My Cool Wall
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2009, 04:17:18 AM »
Yup. The cool and the uncool.

Cool #493. (At least a lot of people wave to it.)